Zimmerman

[Hobbes]

There is this little thing called the law of probability. What we have here is a gated community that is bordered by a low income, high crime area that happens to be predominantly black. It could be white, Hispanic or Asian, it really wouldn't matter. Low income, high crime is the prevailing factor here.

The gated community had a watch program. Their goal was to reduce predatory crime in their gated community, as is their right to do. Their gated community happened to lie between the low income, high crime area and a place or places where those low income, high crime area residents liked to go. So they use it as a shortcut, which would technically be trespassing.

Now it stands to reason that if most of the crime perpetrators, AND the people using the gated community as a public thoroughfare are coming from the predominantly black neighborhood, well, what race do you think the neighborhood watch volunteers are going to encounter?

I've seen this before in policing. An officer gets investigated for civil rights violations and discrimination because 98% of their arrests are on blacks. Well duh! When his patrol beat encompasses an area where 98% of the residents are black, what race would you expect 98% of his arrests to be on???

As for the bolded part above, asked and answered. That was a flawed bit of logic, which happens to be exactly what most of the prosecution's case was made of. Flawed logic.

FWIW, I think Zimmerman is an idiot that made us all (CCW'ers) look bad. Being an ******* and doing something foolish isn't a crime though.



This is probably some of the dumbest "logic" I've ever read. Did you think before you typed that? Seriously?

Have you ever tried to shoot and talk at the same time? You have to consciously tell yourself to do it in order to make it work. The noise of a gunshot is a primordial trigger. Most people don't flinch when firing a gun because of the recoil, it's the loud noise. Ever seen someone drop a dish and have it shatter in a crowded restaurant? What happens? Yep, dead silence. All conversation stops for a brief moment.

When it comes to stuff like this, you have to stop trying to over-analyze the event with a higher order thought process. When it happened there on the grass, no high order brain functions were in force. It was all reptilian, hind brain in a struggle for survival. Regardless of which one was actually screaming, the screaming would logically stop at the shot because the fight was over. Any "help" was overdue and no longer necessary at that point.

The screaming didn't "cease for a moment"
It ceased forever.

GZ told the police that he didn't realize that he had hit TM. He thought he had missed.

 

[Hobbes]

So you're saying that the facial and cranial lacerations were on Martin and not Zimmerman, and that Zimmerman was beating the F°°° out of Martin right before he shot him?

No, I'm pretty sure what I said was

If I was beating the F°°° out of someone I wouldn't be screaming for help, now would I?

 

[Hobbes]

Well, there is the damage to Zimmerman's face and head, the grass on his clothes, the eyewitness testimony, and the testimony of the most credible medical expert. But if you throw all that out, I, much like you, just have speculation left.

I suspect that like most fights it was back and forth with one person having the advantage at one point and the other having the advantage as another point.
The blood on the back of zimmerman's head flows down in a pattern that indicates he is looking down at the time of the blood flow.

[Broken External Image]

The blood isn't running straight down his neck as if he is standing up.
Certainly not the way blood would flow from a man on his back.

 

[Glocktogo]

The screaming didn't "cease for a moment"
It ceased forever.

GZ told the police that he didn't realize that he had hit TM. He thought he had missed.

<clap>...<clap>...<clap>...

Superb use of dramatic language there Hobbes! LOL

Your argument still lays in tatters though.

 

[Quick_Draw_McGraw]

There is this little thing called the law of probability. What we have here is a gated community that is bordered by a low income, high crime area that happens to be predominantly black. It could be white, Hispanic or Asian, it really wouldn't matter. Low income, high crime is the prevailing factor here.

The gated community had a watch program. Their goal was to reduce predatory crime in their gated community, as is their right to do. Their gated community happened to lie between the low income, high crime area and a place or places where those low income, high crime area residents liked to go. So they use it as a shortcut, which would technically be trespassing.

Now it stands to reason that if most of the crime perpetrators, AND the people using the gated community as a public thoroughfare are coming from the predominantly black neighborhood, well, what race do you think the neighborhood watch volunteers are going to encounter?

I've seen this before in policing. An officer gets investigated for civil rights violations and discrimination because 98% of their arrests are on blacks. Well duh! When his patrol beat encompasses an area where 98% of the residents are black, what race would you expect 98% of his arrests to be on???

As for the bolded part above, asked and answered. That was a flawed bit of logic, which happens to be exactly what most of the prosecution's case was made of. Flawed logic.

FWIW, I think Zimmerman is an idiot that made us all (CCW'ers) look bad. Being an ******* and doing something foolish isn't a crime though.

(

Sorry for nit picking, but that's not really the geography of that part of town. I've lived in the Orlando area twice in my life, and once was actually in Sanford. That part of Sanford bleeds into the wealthier small town of Lake Mary. Zimmerman's condos are surrounded by other condo complexes and newer apartment complexes. The cross traffic that you are talking about wouldn't really exist.

Sanford does indeed have a large black population, and also has a large subsidized housing footprint, but that part of Sanford doesn't really match up with the rest of the demographics of the city. Rinheart Road is one of the major roads that cuts through Lake Mary, and most of the new shopping and housing in that part of town was done off of Rinheart Road, and bleed across the city borders of Lake Mary and Sanford.

I was living in Orlando while all this initially happened, and because of the part of Sanford that it happened in, the "black kid sticks out" was a much bigger issue to local media because being black in that part of town would make you stick out more because of the lack of other black people being around.

I don't disagree with the premise of your point, its just not geographically accurate to the situation.

 

[Glocktogo]

No, I'm pretty sure what I said was

Let the record show that you also stated:

You think GZ stopped screaming for help because the gun was so loud?

It was TM screaming for help because a man was pointing a gun at him.
A bullet to the heart stopped that screaming for help.

And then you went on to say:

If I was beating the F°°° out of someone I wouldn't be screaming for help, now would I?
Do you have anything that isn't just a repeat of the defense version of the encounter?

So by ordinary deduction, it would appear that you believe it was Zimmerman beating Martin, despite the evidence to the contrary. If that is not in fact what you're saying, are you now saying it WAS Zimmerman screaming???

Also, your "blood flow pattern" is the worst kind of junk science. For one thing, some of it does flow down and some flows to the side. Further, you don't have any knowledge of when these particular blood flow patterns were made, or what position he was in when it flowed and dried.

What you have shown is that it WAS Martin who beat Zimmerman, and you've already stated that you yourself wouldn't be screaming for help if you were beating someone else.

 

[Glocktogo]

Sorry for nit picking, but that's not really the geography of that part of town. I've lived in the Orlando area twice in my life, and once was actually in Sanford. That part of Sanford bleeds into the wealthier small town of Lake Mary. Zimmerman's condos are surrounded by other condo complexes and newer apartment complexes. The cross traffic that you are talking about wouldn't really exist.

Sanford does indeed have a large black population, and also has a large subsidized housing footprint, but that part of Sanford doesn't really match up with the rest of the demographics of the city. Rinheart Road is one of the major roads that cuts through Lake Mary, and most of the new shopping and housing in that part of town was done off of Rinheart Road, and bleed across the city borders of Lake Mary and Sanford.

I was living in Orlando while all this initially happened, and because of the part of Sanford that it happened in, the "black kid sticks out" was a much bigger issue to local media because being black in that part of town would make you stick out more because of the lack of other black people being around.

I don't disagree with the premise of your point, its just not geographically accurate to the situation.

Since I couldn't possibly dispute it without a LOT of time and effort, I'll stipulate to your point. Thanks for the info. Do you know if there's a particular reason Martin and others in his neighborhood would use the gated community as a shortcut to a convenience store?

 

[Hobbes]

I suspect that like most fights it was back and forth with one person having the advantage at one point and the other having the advantage as another point.
The blood on the back of zimmerman's head flows down in a pattern that indicates he is looking down at the time of the blood flow.

[Broken External Image]

The blood isn't running straight down his neck as if he is standing up.
Certainly not the way blood would flow from a man on his back.

That's what I'm saying alright.

 

[n2sooners]

I suspect that like most fights it was back and forth with one person having the advantage at one point and the other having the advantage as another point.
The blood on the back of zimmerman's head flows down in a pattern that indicates he is looking down at the time of the blood flow.

[Broken External Image]

The blood isn't running straight down his neck as if he is standing up.
Certainly not the way blood would flow from a man on his back.

If the fight were back and forth, why did the witness not see it that way and why did Martin not have a mark on him other than the gunshot wound? As for the pictures, they don't appear to have been taken outside, so my guess is that they were taken at the station. You just shot someone in self defense and killed them and are in the back of a police cruiser on the way to the station. What position are you most likely to hold your head? For that matter, you just shot someone who was on top of you beating you up. You jump up and which direction do you look? According to eyewitness testimony Zimmerman stood over Martin looking down.

 

[Glocktogo]

That's what I'm saying alright.

We hear what you're saying, it just doesn't have any meaning.