.308 vs 30-06

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Yea those heavy rifles are not even the same realm as an off the shelf rifle from the local sporting goods stores.

I weighed rifles today.
Heavy barrel savage axis in .243 with a wood laminated Boyd thumb hole stock and Redfield 6-24x50 30mm tube scope and a Harris light weight 25" bipod weighs in at 12 lbs.

My next heaviest is a 6.5x55 Swedish Mauser with a scope on it 10.75 lb.
The 30-06 I just cut the barrel on is 8.75 lb with scope and short bipod.
Bipod is .66 lb.

The 4" of barrel I cut off the 100ATR 30-06 weighs .26 lb.
I have a love for the precision rigs. Cant say I pay attention to factory sporter options. Those pencil barrel 30-06 and 308s let you know when they fire! I killed a lot of deer with a 1980s model savage 110 in 30-06.
 

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sumoj275

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Some rifle barrels are fast and some are slow so comparing just a couple rifles in different calibers will not prove beyond a doubt what velocity spread there will be.

This is an 18" barrel my Savage 10SR in .308 shooting 150gr flat base speer spizter bullet.
Charge weight 45.5-47.5 in .5gr steps IMR 4064 Looks like it topped out at 2,863 fps before velocity began falling off.
Bullets seated 2.762" = .005 off the lands

#1......... 2796 fps measured at 20 feet from the muzzle.
#2.........2804 fps.
#3.........2863 fps.
#4..........2740 fps.
#5..... error.

This is a Ruger American with 22" barrel same powder and same steps.
Bullet also seated .005" off the lands but seated longer 2.793"
so .031" longer.

#1 .......2756 fps. same 20 feet from muzzle.
#2........2787 fps.
#3........2898 fps.
#4........2880 fps.
#5........2793 fps.

35 fps faster from the Longer barrel Ruger before velocity fell off.

My accuracy node in my 30-06 Mossberg with 22" barrel and 150 gr flat base bullet was 3,030 fps.
That was 52.5gr IMR 4064
That is 132 fps difference with same barrel lengths.

But that is not the fastest it would go and that is a book load.
My fastest most accurate load was a 155 Sierra Palma bullet with a bunch of H4350
3,176 fps That thing was a laser but that bullet would pencil through a deer so i quit that load and bullet.

Now my Savage 308 that had the 24" barrel was fast.
That same sierra palma bullet #2156 seated to 2.898 which was .010" off the lands would go 29.0-2919 fps with 46.5gr Varget in Winchester cases.
47.5 gr 2978 fps.
175 Nosler Custom Competition seated into the lands OAL at 2.810" and 43.5 gr Varget was 2749 fps.
308 Flat point 30-30 bullet with 45.7 Varget was 2940 fps in that 24" Savage heavy barrel.

Those were all very accurate loads in my rifles.

So the 24" 308 with the Palma bullet 2,978 FPS.
Mossberg 22" 30-06 same bullet was 3,176 FPS.
Both very accurate. and 198 FPS difference between the 2.

Yea that 30-06 was loaded to modern pressures not old school pressures.
I actually tested it at 100°F and went even more powder and broke over 3200 fps and got sticky bolt lift and backed off.
That bullet has a very short bearing surface and did not shoot well going slow in those 10 twist barrels.
I had to push it to get tight groups.
Not something I care to do really.

Fun with numbers.

 
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Usually its barely 100 fps slower,
Umm..... I'd compare my reloads with that number. Powder, pressure and case volume for additional pressure is where the 30-06 can shine.
As we all know, speed doesn't signify most accurate, but there is that capability for additional capacity to get that speed up.
The 1000 yard guys weren't shooting walmart bolt guns.
I keep looking at all these new wizbang calibers that want to force us to buy a new gun, supplies to reload it and also produce the bullets that are propriety to that caliber, then compare it to the 30-06 in ballistics tables.
Let's say using hypothetical numbers because I'm too lazy tonight to look up the correct stuff that a 30-06 at 500 yards requires a 35" holdover with a 165 grain bullet at 2750 fps for published rounds as an example.
A new whizbang caliber at the same distance with a 100 grain bullet is 10" flatter and faster.
What difference does it make if you know your ballistics? Either caliber can be used if the bullet is put into the boiler room of the animal.
The difference is that the heavier bullet will produce more kentic energy at longer ranges, more energy on the animal and potentially a cleaner kill.
If your punching paper or steel, disregard everything just said above.
 
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Umm..... I'd compare my reloads with that number. Powder, pressure and case volume for additional pressure is where the 30-06 can shine.
As we all know, speed doesn't signify most accurate, but there is that capability for additional capacity to get that speed up.
The 1000 yard guys weren't shooting walmart bolt guns.
I keep looking at all these new wizbang calibers that want to force us to buy a new gun, supplies to reload it and also produce the bullets that are propriety to that caliber, then compare it to the 30-06 in ballistics tables.
Let's say using hypothetical numbers because I'm too lazy tonight to look up the correct stuff that a 30-06 at 500 yards requires a 35" holdover with a 165 grain bullet at 2750 fps for published rounds as an example.
A new whizbang caliber at the same distance with a 100 grain bullet is 10" flatter and faster.
What difference does it make if you know your ballistics? Either caliber can be used if the bullet is put into the boiler room of the animal.
The difference is that the heavier bullet will produce more kentic energy at longer ranges, more energy on the animal and potentially a cleaner kill.
If your punching paper or steel, disregard everything just said above.
I'm with you on the lethality and practicality of killing critters - but...
the longer the bullet flies fast, the less effect the wind and gravity have on it.

A bullet travelling at 4000 fps is going to pass a hundred yards in .075 of a second. A bullet going 3000 fps passes it in .1 seconds. (I know that's not the numbers we're dealing with, just making it simple)

Wind has .025 of a second longer to push the bullet aside, gravity has .025 of a second longer to pull it down.
That for each 100 yds, assuming the bullet could sustain those speeds. They don't, they slow down, and the differences between the two get larger, and the effects of wind and gravity become more exaggerated.

As I've said many times before - my old 7x57 has never been outrun by a deer. On the other hand, a 7mm Remington Magnum will seriously outshoot it at distance, and the superior ballistic trajectory will limit the amount of math/holdover the shooter must do.

I used to care about such things, now I'm more interested in how far a given rifle will shoot "minute of deer".
If I owned a cartridge company I'd surely be trying to promote the latest and greatest in order to boost sales.
 


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