I always pictured you as an ******* who is both scrawny and demented. And a freak of nature, not a part of it.
I was way off.
I always pictured you as an ******* who is both scrawny and demented. And a freak of nature, not a part of it.
I was way off.
I can see your point, but in my area, we have a buck to doe ratio that is so out of balance, that if we don't take care of it, the deer population and other animals that live in the same ecosystem are going to suffer.
Most of our wheat and alfalfa fields are bare ground 50 yards or so away from the tree lines.
In 6 years, on our DMAP, we have taken hundreds of does, and with this years spotlight count, the ODW biologist have said we are doing nothing but keeping up, not making progress.
Its less about the crop loss, than the deer herd outgrowing their habitat. We have little habitat in our area. Mostly wooded areas no more than 100 yds wide, on either side of a creek, and miles and miles of nothing but wheat fields.
Yeah, the benefit of managing the heard (does) is that we are seeing more bucks. Most small, but mother nature in her wisdom sends these small bucks to areas outside of our managment area. This in turn is benefiting the neighbors.
Its taken awhile, but most of the neighbors have accepted the biological proof, in seeing more bucks on their properties, and have been letting the small one walk, and hammering the does.
Managment is the only way humans can protect the herd from overpopulation and mother nature finally will do what she has to if we don't intercede.
Its not pretty when mother nature does what she has to do.
I'm on board with this.
I don't care what the antler size is. Its your deer, and its your trophy, no matter what the size.
Its deer hunting, and this is what we do. Nobody should ever judge anybody on the size of the deer that they take.
Hold your head up and screw the ones that want to criticise.
Not everybody has the greatest spot on earth to go, and for the majority, of deer hunters their spots are marginal, and that makes it an even greater trophy when one is killed on public, or marginal ground.
Lets just get out there and hunt.
The Sunday before Thanksgiving I was out there on the ground and I saw a little fork horn moving along a brush line just about sunset. I dropped down on my butt and watched him through my scope. He eventually saw me, but he couldn'd figure out what I was. He trotted right at me and got within about 15 yards.
There's my season.
There's my season.
Probably the first up-close human he has ever seen and saw no danger.
Should have popped him and got some nice jerky and backstrap
I had this guy within bowrange several times this year. It's funny knowing that when I started bowhunting I'd have been all over him. I let him walk at 6 yards twice one morning.
I walked 3 8 points in this size/age range last year, not certain any were the same deer as the picture. I did kill one in this size range though, thought he was a little bigger but I have no shame and no regrets.
Then we have the one I killed this year. He is a 3.5-4.5 year old buck that might push 120 inches. To a lot of guys, he's a dink. To me he is a damn good buck any day. In my area, I hunt a scandalous amount. I see about 1-2 3.5+ year old bucks a year on a good year. Heavy, heavy pressure all around and bucks just don't make it that long very often. Any 3.5 year old buck is a NICE buck to me. If you hold out for big book racks, you'll never kill a buck. If you hold out for any older than I do, you might get 1 every 15 years. Hopefully the ones I pass make a little difference. The neighbors pass nothing.
Even the ones that do age don't get huge. It's the NE Oklahoma hills. Dad shot an ancient buck with no teeth and a potbelly that taped out in the mid 120's.
He might even be one I passed 2 years ago.
What everyone feels comfortable shooting changes the longer you hunt. It used to be any deer. Then it was any deer with my bow. Now it's does and 3.5 + year old bucks, and any deer with my recurve (no recurve kills yet, I'm a newb). I doubt I'll ever shoot a little (to me) buck with a gun again, but I like to stay in practice with the bow, so who knows on that one. If I can't get a doe, I'll stick one to stay in practice. I hunt for me and what I want to shoot, not for anyone else. This is where I am now, it it might change tomorrow.
But the culling young bucks thing is backwards logic. If you want a spike, shoot it and be proud. Don't justify it to anyone, it's your decision. If you want a better chance at big bucks and are willing to do what it takes, you should pass all young bucks and shoot does.
I walked 3 8 points in this size/age range last year, not certain any were the same deer as the picture. I did kill one in this size range though, thought he was a little bigger but I have no shame and no regrets.
Then we have the one I killed this year. He is a 3.5-4.5 year old buck that might push 120 inches. To a lot of guys, he's a dink. To me he is a damn good buck any day. In my area, I hunt a scandalous amount. I see about 1-2 3.5+ year old bucks a year on a good year. Heavy, heavy pressure all around and bucks just don't make it that long very often. Any 3.5 year old buck is a NICE buck to me. If you hold out for big book racks, you'll never kill a buck. If you hold out for any older than I do, you might get 1 every 15 years. Hopefully the ones I pass make a little difference. The neighbors pass nothing.
Even the ones that do age don't get huge. It's the NE Oklahoma hills. Dad shot an ancient buck with no teeth and a potbelly that taped out in the mid 120's.
He might even be one I passed 2 years ago.
What everyone feels comfortable shooting changes the longer you hunt. It used to be any deer. Then it was any deer with my bow. Now it's does and 3.5 + year old bucks, and any deer with my recurve (no recurve kills yet, I'm a newb). I doubt I'll ever shoot a little (to me) buck with a gun again, but I like to stay in practice with the bow, so who knows on that one. If I can't get a doe, I'll stick one to stay in practice. I hunt for me and what I want to shoot, not for anyone else. This is where I am now, it it might change tomorrow.
But the culling young bucks thing is backwards logic. If you want a spike, shoot it and be proud. Don't justify it to anyone, it's your decision. If you want a better chance at big bucks and are willing to do what it takes, you should pass all young bucks and shoot does.
Ive been management and maybe even a little trophy minded from the begining... I blame it on television.
My first buck was with a bow, it was a decent 8pt and it is also the smallest buck i have ever killed it was also on public land. I was young then but even so, from that day on i wouldnt even pull my bow off the hanger on a deer that size.
The reason i say i blame tv is that no one im my house hunted and i pretty much learned everything on my own. Which came from... Watching monster buck videos for years before i ever even started hunting. So the first time i climbed a tree with my bow, what i had seen in those videos is what i expected.
Anyway, the talk about only having mediocre land to hunt. I have been lucky enough to get to hunt kansas for a while which is a state that has practice good management for a while and it shows. There are reasons why the public land there is just as good if not better than the best private land here in oklahoma. Now if our state as a whole worked together we could turn those sub par spots and our public land a lot of us hunt into great hunting areas.
My first buck was with a bow, it was a decent 8pt and it is also the smallest buck i have ever killed it was also on public land. I was young then but even so, from that day on i wouldnt even pull my bow off the hanger on a deer that size.
The reason i say i blame tv is that no one im my house hunted and i pretty much learned everything on my own. Which came from... Watching monster buck videos for years before i ever even started hunting. So the first time i climbed a tree with my bow, what i had seen in those videos is what i expected.
Anyway, the talk about only having mediocre land to hunt. I have been lucky enough to get to hunt kansas for a while which is a state that has practice good management for a while and it shows. There are reasons why the public land there is just as good if not better than the best private land here in oklahoma. Now if our state as a whole worked together we could turn those sub par spots and our public land a lot of us hunt into great hunting areas.
I hope to get a doe in the holiday season.
As you, I came from a non-hunting family.
No mentors. No internet.
A lot of people say the next world record may come from Ks.
Thousands of folks from Ks come to Ok to hunt deer in our first season, and then go home to hunt the ks bucks.
I don't have a problem with the ks folks coming to hunt on us., no more than me going there to bird hunt.
Hard to take Dr. James Kroll seriously after reading that - what does he say about deer farms then? impossible? I can see how malnutrition can stunt the growth - but if you ain't got it, you ain't got it.
Ironically the conclusion is that a fully grown spike will be AVERAGE AT BEST among the rest deer OF ALL AGES!
On our land most of the deer management is done by truckers - I usually loose 3:1 on our mile during rut. I see 30+ deer every time I go out, most of them bucks. I see 7-8 fully grown bucks and 7-8 forkers. I feel very bad if I shoot a button instead of a doe. As I said - I generally don't take an "average" buck. But I really don't see why I should spare a spike in my situation. Deer in farm country is a nuisance - next thing you know, the neighbors get an extermination permit cause "there is too many ugly ones eating all the good stuff"
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