At what age do you shoot spikes?

[dennishoddy]

MoBoost, I think the acronym your thinking of is DMAP.
Deer managment assistance program. Its a program that landowners can join, ran by the ODW.
If there is enough acreage involved, and the deer herd has reached the limits of the land to sustain them, this program will allow the landowner to take a survey of the deer, and and with advice from a ODW wildlife biologist, they will tell you how many does need to be taken each year to get the herd back in balance.
It is not a license to shoot spikes, or inferior bucks. Its to get the buck to doe ratio as close to 1-1 as possible.
As I'm sure you know whitetail have two breeding seasons. The rut in Nov is the first, and around the first of the year is the second.
Deer, like humans have a specific gestation period, so the does bred first, drop their fawns first in the spring.
The young bucks born first, have a longer period for antler development in their first year, typically making at least one fork.
Does that are Bred in late dec, and early Jan., drop their fawns later in the spring, so the buck fawns don't have the same length of time for antler development, and by the time they get weaned, the browse is suffering the effects of a hot summer, so sometimes they are lacking in nourishment which retards antler growth to the point that by fall hunting season, they only have spikes and not forks.
This description isn't sealed in stone, as there are variables to every scnerio. Mother Nature has her ways.
As for the quote from the Noble Foundation, about culling undesirable deer, they are talking about allowing the deer to mature to at least 2 1/2 yrs old before making it a "managment" buck.
I hope this helps.

 

[MoBoost]

Some managers believe spikes (bucks with 1 point on each antler) are the easiest category of potentially inferior bucks to recognize. In some cases this may be true, but poor nutrition can mask an animal’s antler potential. For example, yearlings that would normally have multi-pointed antlers can have spike antlers when subjected to nutritional stress caused by drought, deer overpopulation, or heavy livestock competition. Additionally, yearlings that are spikes because of late birth, such as the offspring of does bred as fawns, may have more growth potential than other yearling bucks. Intensively harvesting spikes should be evaluated carefully. Although spike bucks could be considered genetically inferior to similarly aged multi-pointed bucks on the same area (theoretically both groups had access to the same food), extensive spike harvest could result in overharvest of an age-class. Thus intensively harvesting spikes is often not warranted.

Same source - there is a lot of ifs-and-buts ... it's there.
I don't consider taking one/season very intensive - I haven't seen one this season at all, but lots of forkies. I completely disregard fawn-sized deer (late-drop buttons and spikes).

dennis: DMAP is a conservation program - not removal from farm lands, not what I was thinking of.

Thanks for everybody's help - I'm learning here and there

 

[RidgeHunter]

I think you were thinking of crop damage/depredation permits.

Other states have them, but I am pretty sure Oklahoma does not. 99.999999% sure.

 

[Buzzgun]

MoBoost

Like I said, you need to go to the Nobel Foundation seminar, no BS, no guessing, during the studies, they captured wild deer, ear tagged them and photographed them throughout their lives. You can see photographic proof of what spikes can grow later in life. I think you would also be very surprised at the inaccuracy of aging methods in wide use today, again, proof, not theory.


Shoot what you want, but don't fool yourself into thinking you are improving genetics by shooting young bucks with spikes.

 

[MoBoost]

I'd love to attend one of the seminars - looks like I'll have to wait till May

You wouldn't happen to have access/link to the data collected - often people involved in data collection have inadequate knowledge of discrete math and get to conclusions with agenda other than statistical analysis.

 

[Mark Munkres]

I have my place in the WHIP program mainly to remove cedar trees. When the biologist was doing his inspection, I remarked that I would see a spike buck at nearly every stand on the place. He said it was because of too many does. A greater number of does means more does bred later, hence later born fawn. When those fawns start forming antlers they aren't even a year old. So the best way to decrease spike bucks is to kill more does. Actually spike bucks don't really bother me. I know eventually they will grow into good bucks.

 

[Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow]

Don't shoot spikes at 1.5 year (guess you know that).

If you can somehow figure out from body shape that they're 2.5 or older, then sure, cull them. But that's easier said than done. When in doubt, let 'em go, let 'em grow. IMO. Unless it's the last day of the season of course.

 

[Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow]

When the biologist was doing his inspection, I remarked that I would see a spike buck at nearly every stand on the place. He said it was because of too many does. A greater number of does means more does bred later, hence later born fawn. When those fawns start forming antlers they aren't even a year old.

Makes sense - they're born in July or August, so they're only a year 2 months to a year 4 months in Oct & Nov.

Another side effect of too many does is the 2nd rut is on in a lot of places right now.

 

[Ksmirk]

We just have an 8 point or better rule cause it's momma nature that says what they are going to come out UNLESS they are in a highfence and the does are AI'ed with said awesome genetics sperm from said buck and the others are fixed kinda like those high dollar cattle.

In nature there is nothing stopping that crazy goofy buck down the road from sneaking in and knocking up a few does on your place! so my question is HOW do you know that spike is 2 1/2 years old? not to stir up anything but I'd not think a buck over 1 1/2 would be a spike, and I'm sure not going to say THAT spike buck rith there is 3 years old UNLESS he's been in a pen the whole time HOW do you know it's the same deer? eartags?

Just asking been doing this a long time and find it hard to tell how old a deer is without checking a jaw bone and have found that difficult to check that on a live deer so far. Later,

Kirk

 

[Ksmirk]

Oh RidgeHunter Oklahoma does have the dedregation tags still helped a guy out last year with them and the folks I hunt on have some this year BUT they are a touch picky about how many go out. Later,

Kirk