Can I sell a rifle to a resident of another state...

[CAR-AR-M16]

I guess my only question to the wording of that above paragraph is it is worded in the way that they are talking about sales from dealers.

How is a private person going to know and or check to see if the buying person is from their state and or convicted of any felony crimes that would exempt them from buying from a licensed dealer?

Private sales just like the one posed are no different than the ones that people do at gun shows and through this very website at times. That would mean that there is a possibility that some sales and or transactions on this site might not be meeting those guidelines.

That is true. It is also possible that you are buying a stolen gun from someone as well. There is no way to be 100% sure of any of the things mentioned when doing a private sale/buy. I would at least ask to see someones DL to see if they are a resident or not. Also, the old adage about trusting your senses would apply as well. If you get one of those "funny feelings" about someone, don't deal with them.

 

[ninefan]

if he does not know or have reasonable cause to believe the person is prohibited from receiving or possessing firearms under Federal law.

"Does not know" covers a lot of ground here. On the other hand, given certain information that is obvious to you in the course of the transaction, you might have "reasonable cause to believe" that you shouldn't be selling a firearm to that person.

If they tell you they are driving up from Texas to meet you, that should probably be a "reasonable" warning flag.

If they have their location marked on the forum as being in Kansas or something, that should probably be a "reasonable" warning flag.

If they have out-of-state plates on their vehicle, that should probably be a "reasonable" warning flag.

In any case like that I would definitely be asking for an Oklahoma ID. If they say no, that's fine, I have no problem walking away from a deal.

If they mention in the course of conversation that they are a felon and they couldn't buy the gun from a dealer.... that's probably not good either.

Just my thoughts on the matter. I'd be welcome to hearing other comments.

 

[CAR-AR-M16]

"Does not know" covers a lot of ground here. On the other hand, given certain information that is obvious to you in the course of the transaction, you might have "reasonable cause to believe" that you shouldn't be selling a firearm to that person.

If they tell you they are driving up from Texas to meet you, that should probably be a "reasonable" warning flag.

If they have their location marked on the forum as being in Kansas or something, that should probably be a "reasonable" warning flag.

If they have out-of-state plates on their vehicle, that should probably be a "reasonable" warning flag.

In any case like that I would definitely be asking for an Oklahoma ID. If they say no, that's fine, I have no problem walking away from a deal.

If they mention in the course of conversation that they are a felon and they couldn't buy the gun from a dealer.... that's probably not good either.

Just my thoughts on the matter. I'd be welcome to hearing other comments.

Excellent points.

 

[tranger2]

This post is a result of my selling a rifle to my brother in law who lives in Texas. He called three FFL's in Texas who said if he comes to OK and it is a face to face transaction, we do not need an FFL transaction.

So then I posted this question and it looks like I do per Federal law. I went to a gunsite and found an FFL in Texas who would handle a transfer for $5 for military/law enforcement. My brother in law called the FFL to handle the deal and explained what was going on. This FFL (the fourth) again said if he was in the state and was face to face, then it could be done.

I guess I will call ATF next week and see if I can an "official" answer.
Any FFL's on the board care to give their expert advice on this?

 

[natgas]

Here is a portion of the ATF's rules which might help; again, it would be wise to check with a local FFL in his state:

§ 478.30 Out-of-State disposition of
firearms by nonlicensees.
No nonlicensee shall transfer, sell,
trade, give, transport, or deliver any firearm
to any other nonlicensee, who the
transferor knows or has reasonable cause
to believe does not reside in (or if the person
is a corporation or other business
entity, does not maintain a place of business
in) the State in which the transferor
resides: Provided, That the provisions of
this section:
(a) shall not apply to the transfer,
transportation, or delivery of a firearm
made to carry out a bequest of a firearm
to, or any acquisition by intestate succession
of a firearm by, a person who is permitted
to acquire or possess a firearm
under the laws of the State of his residence;
and
(b) shall not apply to the loan or rental
of a firearm to any person for temporary
use for lawful sporting purposes.

 

[CAR-AR-M16]

This post is a result of my selling a rifle to my brother in law who lives in Texas. He called three FFL's in Texas who said if he comes to OK and it is a face to face transaction, we do not need an FFL transaction.

So then I posted this question and it looks like I do per Federal law. I went to a gunsite and found an FFL in Texas who would handle a transfer for $5 for military/law enforcement. My brother in law called the FFL to handle the deal and explained what was going on. This FFL (the fourth) again said if he was in the state and was face to face, then it could be done.

I guess I will call ATF next week and see if I can an "official" answer.
Any FFL's on the board care to give their expert advice on this?

Just because someone has an FFL does not mean they know all the laws. I am actually suprised that some are still in business with the lack of knowledge I have seen. I posted the info above straight from the ATF website and natgas (who is a Licensed FFL) showed you the same info from ATF as well. For all of the FFL's that are telling you it is OK, ask them to cite you an official reference.

 

[planefixr]

This post is a result of my selling a rifle to my brother in law who lives in Texas. He called three FFL's in Texas who said if he comes to OK and it is a face to face transaction, we do not need an FFL transaction.

So then I posted this question and it looks like I do per Federal law. I went to a gunsite and found an FFL in Texas who would handle a transfer for $5 for military/law enforcement. My brother in law called the FFL to handle the deal and explained what was going on. This FFL (the fourth) again said if he was in the state and was face to face, then it could be done.

I guess I will call ATF next week and see if I can an "official" answer.
Any FFL's on the board care to give their expert advice on this?

Why tie the noose and put it around your neck for em?
It went to a family member. it is not registered in your name since there is no registration in our state. Just consider this a learning experiance and move on.

 

[Rod Snell]

This post is a result of my selling a rifle to my brother in law who lives in Texas. He called three FFL's in Texas who said if he comes to OK and it is a face to face transaction, we do not need an FFL transaction.

So then I posted this question and it looks like I do per Federal law. I went to a gunsite and found an FFL in Texas who would handle a transfer for $5 for military/law enforcement. My brother in law called the FFL to handle the deal and explained what was going on. This FFL (the fourth) again said if he was in the state and was face to face, then it could be done.

I guess I will call ATF next week and see if I can an "official" answer.
Any FFL's on the board care to give their expert advice on this?

Here is your official answer:
Q: To whom may an unlicensed person transfer firearms under the GCA?
A person may sell a firearm to an unlicensed resident of his State, if he does not know or have reasonable cause to believe the person is prohibited from receiving or possessing firearms under Federal law.
http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/unlicensed-persons.html#gca-unlicensed-transfer

I used to shoot skeet with the mid-Atlantic regional ATF director. Private sales across state lines are a felony, even if it is your twin brother. Period. He said they figure that and strawman sales are the most common violations of the code, and they prosecute if they catch you. Probalby 1 chance in 300 statistically of being caught, near 100% conviction rate if they do.
ATF does stings at gun shows when they figure the illegal sales are getting out of hand. They and CA authorities arrested over 200 in one weekend from a Reno show as they crossed back into CA.

IMHO advising anyone to commit a Federal felony in the hope of not being caught ranks right up there with "hold my beer and watch this."

 

[tranger2]

My official answer is use the FFL in Texas, FOR $5.00 FEE. Better safe than sorry. Thanks for all the answers, much appreciated.

 

[Soulman]

You can legally loan firearms to out of state family members and maybe even friends I believe. But you can't sell to them or give to them without a FFL. For example, Okie dad loans his jayhawker son his colt 45. Legal. Same thing worded different: Okie dad "gave" colt 45 to his jayhawker son. Illegal. No FFL. Now the third option that doesn't require a ffl is is Okie dad dies and wills his colt 45 to jayhawker son.