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Sorry, i haven't read all of the threads on this subject. Tell me how is one right a potatoe and another right an apple?
They are all rights. Making our gun rights a seperate and distinct rights that we have to give up just because we are on private property is a bad strategy. Our right to self defense is just as important as any other right. It is more important if you are being threatened with losing your life.
So, tell me what other rights should be left at the entry way to private property? Make a potatoe to potatoe for me. Or an apple to apple. What rights besides self defense do you think we should give up to enter a private busuness?
The point I am trying to make is that private property rights in a business open to the public doesn't trump all of our other rights.
I think that our right to self defense should not be one of them that does get trumped.
I do agree that more wisdom is needed than some are displaying even if I do agree with their objective.
Tells us a lot about some people...
Sent from outer space or somewhere from my mobile device
He has a Sonic shirt on..... 
A private business that is open to the public is still a private business until such time that the government nationalizes
all private property rights. I can hang a sign at the entrance to my business stating "Owner reserves the right to refuse service to anyone" and I can legally do that. The problem lies with an owner that wants to engage in the reasoning behind why he is refusing to serve someone. That's usually what gets them in trouble.
It's just like this whole open carry fiasco. You have to right to do it. There is no need now to debate it. Sometimes the best course of action is to simply STFU. Just cause someone tries to bait you into an argument doesn't mean you need to answer. Hit the ignore button, go back to eating you're footlong chili cheese dog or dipping your buffalo wings into some ranch dip or someothing.
Sometimes silence is your best weapon.
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I think the OCers from TX are absolutely moronic. I don't ever OC. If this group did show up to debate/engage the MDA group, I think it was stupid. To me, and I believe I've seen others echo this sentiment, the absolute best way to promote OC (if that's your thing) is to OC in a "professional" manner (IE, don't look like a mall ninja) and not engage in arguments/debates. If done correctly it can both get the public used to seeing guns without striking fear (a weapon secured in a correct fitting holster will be unnoticed by most or it will be assumed you are law enforcement). The more people see it, the less it will bother them. However, anything that draws attention to the weapon also prompts fear.
The best response by OCers to a MDA group would be to ignore them and go about your business. Do not argue, do not engage, simply state something like "ma'am, I'm trying to eat my burrito. Please leave me be." The more they get agitated, and the OCers stay calm to the point of nonchalance, the more the public's perception of which side is hot-headed and irrational is reversed. If we stop making scenes, and let the other side be the only ones causing a scene, the more stories like this we will see.
Just imagine the video tape of a group chanting, taunting, and yelling at a group sitting eating their food as if nothing was happening... How much would we benefit from that (I would point out we have plenty showing the opposite, and the amount of benefit we would get, is multiplied by about 10 for them). I want to see more stories about "the people here that were carrying were just trying to go about their business but the gun-control group would not let them be so we had to ask the gun control advocates to leave".
This is not a war people. It is a PR campaign. It will be won or lost the same way every other issue that can be voted on is, by public opinion. And I am sick of the "they are never going to change so we have free reign to do whatever we want" argument. People have not always had these views, and they WERE shifting to our favor for a while. I still see everyone proudly proclaiming when polls are in our favor against gun control, but then when it's looking bad people start claiming "they'll never change!!! Shove it down their throat that it is our right to purposely try and make them uncomfortable!!" If we play our cards right, things can swing our way again. Otherwise... our "rights" will be voted away.
The best response by OCers to a MDA group would be to ignore them and go about your business. Do not argue, do not engage, simply state something like "ma'am, I'm trying to eat my burrito. Please leave me be." The more they get agitated, and the OCers stay calm to the point of nonchalance, the more the public's perception of which side is hot-headed and irrational is reversed. If we stop making scenes, and let the other side be the only ones causing a scene, the more stories like this we will see.
Just imagine the video tape of a group chanting, taunting, and yelling at a group sitting eating their food as if nothing was happening... How much would we benefit from that (I would point out we have plenty showing the opposite, and the amount of benefit we would get, is multiplied by about 10 for them). I want to see more stories about "the people here that were carrying were just trying to go about their business but the gun-control group would not let them be so we had to ask the gun control advocates to leave".
This is not a war people. It is a PR campaign. It will be won or lost the same way every other issue that can be voted on is, by public opinion. And I am sick of the "they are never going to change so we have free reign to do whatever we want" argument. People have not always had these views, and they WERE shifting to our favor for a while. I still see everyone proudly proclaiming when polls are in our favor against gun control, but then when it's looking bad people start claiming "they'll never change!!! Shove it down their throat that it is our right to purposely try and make them uncomfortable!!" If we play our cards right, things can swing our way again. Otherwise... our "rights" will be voted away.
You do understand this discussion is about an OK OC group encountering/confronting the MDA in a Tulsa Chipotle, not in TX, right???
You do know the group in TX is carrying long guns openly and legally because that is their only choice under current TX law, right??? They chose that method to make their political point to advocate for legal handgun OC in TX and that point has now been lost in the uproar. They chose...poorly.
You present excellent points about how to OC without alarming most reasonable people and I'd likely exclude the MDA from the "reasonable people" classification since they are in the same camp as Bloomberg, Brady, etc. The encounter would likely go exactly as you describe and the OC group/person's response should be the quiet demeanor you describe. In my observations of those OC in OK since it became legal, I've seen some that didn't rise to your "professional" criteria but haven't seen them called out or incite the people around them to panic.
Sorry, I should have made clear that I was merely giving my opinion on OCing in general by relating it to the TX OCers in order to adequately provide a context for the comment following. As for the TX people only being able to carry long guns, I do understand that. My reply to that in another thread was instead of carrying long guns, a more effective approach may be to have a shirt made saying 1 in 20 (or whatever the percentage is in Tx with concealed carry licenses) people in Tx legally carry guns concealed. I'm one of them. Why do I have to hide it? Or something to that effect. Make sure people know how many guns are around them already, whether they see them or not. The more they know this, the more they realize every day that nothing happens that guns in the community don't spell disaster.
The apples to potatoes has to do with groups of people not rights. Race, religion, and sexual orientation are different than carrying a weapon. So one is apples the other potatoes. Carrying a weapon not quite the same but more closely related to wearing appropriate clothing.
Why should a business owner give up his rights when you walk in? Both you and the business owner have rights. If you go into his establishment under your own free will you are agreeing to his set of rules. Sometimes the rules are posted for you to see, such as no shirt, no shoes, no service. No pets.
You never give up your right to self defense, what you are giving up is a method of self defense.
If it becomes apparent that a business owner is refusing to serve people with big noses it won't be long before he is in a courtroom explaining why to the public. The customers don't have a right to be served by a business, but does the business have a right to abuse the customers rights? Is there a right to be safe? Does it still exist inside of a private business?
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