High end AR’s, diminishing returns, and reliability.

[Gunblinder]

Kinda disappointed honestly. Some decent opinions though, not a lot of scientific stuff or real life experience it feels though. I need to read through and catch up though.

I only have opinions, I have only shot at paper and never been shot back at. I am glad for that and appreciate, to no end, those that do/did. With that being said, I have not had a single failure, while only shooting at paper mind that, with any of the ARs I got, from DPMS, to frankenbuilds, BCM, DD, Spikes, and LWRC piston(which I prefer because of the less amount of cleaning I gotta do but annoyed by “ping”). Just my opinion from someone that only shoots at paper

 

[HoLeChit]

So I have been doing lots of shopping and research, and I feel like I am going the wrong direction. I found the newish PSA (I swore I wasn't going that direction on this purchase) Sabre. Seems pretty awesome honestly. Forged 7075 T6 receiver, option to get Geissle MK14 handguard and pinned gas block, FN CHF barrel, C158 Microbest bolt assy, Radian and other nice parts. checks all my boxes, aside from trigger, and comes in at $500-800 less than comparable setups. For the same price I would be paying for a vanilla FN, i could get something seemingly nicer than a SOLGW setup.... yeah, I don't get a cool name on it or internet points, but the money saved could cover most of the cost of a can. I'm alright with doing a little of my own QC, or taking it to a gunsmith for a good once over with that kinda money saved. Anything I am reading or hearing is showing people having QC issues due to a lack of cleaning, lubrication, or checking specs, making sure that everything is properly tightened and such.


How dumb of an idea is this? Otherwise I am kinda sold on a SOLGW M4-89 or a LMT Defender, but both are a little more than I want to spend, and some of the news around SOLGW isn't very appetizing. In terms of QC It seems like SOLGW isn't much better than anyone else, PSA's new offerings included.

 

[WoodsCraft]

So I have been doing lots of shopping and research, and I feel like I am going the wrong direction. I found the newish PSA (I swore I wasn't going that direction on this purchase) Sabre. Seems pretty awesome honestly. Forged 7075 T6 receiver, option to get Geissle MK14 handguard and pinned gas block, FN CHF barrel, C158 Microbest bolt assy, Radian and other nice parts. checks all my boxes, aside from trigger, and comes in at $500-800 less than comparable setups. For the same price I would be paying for a vanilla FN, i could get something seemingly nicer than a SOLGW setup.... yeah, I don't get a cool name on it or internet points, but the money saved could cover most of the cost of a can. I'm alright with doing a little of my own QC, or taking it to a gunsmith for a good once over with that kinda money saved. Anything I am reading or hearing is showing people having QC issues due to a lack of cleaning, lubrication, or checking specs, making sure that everything is properly tightened and such.


How dumb of an idea is this? Otherwise I am kinda sold on a SOLGW M4-89 or a LMT Defender, but both are a little more than I want to spend, and some of the news around SOLGW isn't very appetizing. In terms of QC It seems like SOLGW isn't much better than anyone else, PSA's new offerings included.

Just remember there's a lot of truth to buy once cry once. The LMT Defender is a very solid gun and you won't be unhappy

 

[O4L]

So I have been doing lots of shopping and research, and I feel like I am going the wrong direction. I found the newish PSA (I swore I wasn't going that direction on this purchase) Sabre. Seems pretty awesome honestly. Forged 7075 T6 receiver, option to get Geissle MK14 handguard and pinned gas block, FN CHF barrel, C158 Microbest bolt assy, Radian and other nice parts. checks all my boxes, aside from trigger, and comes in at $500-800 less than comparable setups. For the same price I would be paying for a vanilla FN, i could get something seemingly nicer than a SOLGW setup.... yeah, I don't get a cool name on it or internet points, but the money saved could cover most of the cost of a can. I'm alright with doing a little of my own QC, or taking it to a gunsmith for a good once over with that kinda money saved. Anything I am reading or hearing is showing people having QC issues due to a lack of cleaning, lubrication, or checking specs, making sure that everything is properly tightened and such.


How dumb of an idea is this? Otherwise I am kinda sold on a SOLGW M4-89 or a LMT Defender, but both are a little more than I want to spend, and some of the news around SOLGW isn't very appetizing. In terms of QC It seems like SOLGW isn't much better than anyone else, PSA's new offerings included.

Just curious...

What are the prices on each one you are considering?

Links to specs?

 

[Camo]

Most parts come from the same foundaries, just different stamps. Only builder I won’t trust is Bear Creek. From personal experience, they have no quality control. Parts installed wrong (gas tube upside down) and all hardware finger tight. This seems to be the standard. As for the rest, my poor run well right along with top tier.

 

[HoLeChit]

Just curious...

What are the prices on each one you are considering?

Links to specs?

Sabre is $1200, and aside from an optic/light/sling/can, I don't think I would add anything. If I did change anything, I would maybe put a pinned/dimple adjustable gas block on (if horribly overgassed) and a different trigger, I would be out of another $300ish. But, nice parts and specs aside, its still a PSA.

https://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-sabre-forged-14-5-5-56-fn-chf-cl-13-5-geissele-mk14-pin-weld-rifle-with-silenceroco-asr-and-magpul-sl-s-furniture.html

SOLGW is much higher at $1800. Like the Sabre I don't think I would change anything. has a lot of the same parts/features of the Sabre. It does not have a pinned gas block. 3-4 years ago it was all good reviews, the owner was sending out a lot of free ammo and guns to people for testing. More recent stuff seems to have a pattern of mediocre reviews, with a few bads. Owner's overall treatment of people seems to be lacking from what I have seen though. Its weird, you look at threads on other forums and lots of people say they have an issue, he shows up on forum, posts "I'll take care of it", and next thing you know said people sing his praises and talk about how wonderful everything is. It almost feels rehearsed. He's also assaulted some police officers and threatened to kill a few. Also rumors of questionable dealings with police departments and him selling his firearms to them. Great warranty though.

Home

DetailsThe Sons of Liberty Gun Works M4-89 14.5" carbine in 5.56 NATO is SOLGW's premier fighting rifle. The M4-89 is built from the ground up with sought after upgrades, such as an A5 buffer system, ambidextrous short throw safety selector, and Liberty Fighting Trigger. With a pinned NOX flash...

www.primaryarms.com

SOLGW M489 - Sons Of Liberty Gun Works

sonsoflibertygw.com

Honestly, this article reads like a smear/slam piece, but I keep finding the same info all over the place, just worded nicer or sanitized for the readers. Threats, violence, questionable dealings, and as of feb 2019 4 arrests on suspicion of DWI? That's quite the laundry list, and I don't know how I feel about condoning such things through my patronage. Agencies buying from local riflemaker say they were unaware of owner’s history of threats, violence against SAPD officers

I got the models mixed up with the LMT's. Was looking at the FN Guardian, and the LMT Mars. the Mars is double my budget, so not gonna happen for a while. The FN is appealling, but I want this to be a suppressor host and a easily transportable setup, want to cut the barrel down to about 14", pin and weld to sit right at 16.1", and then I would have to swap out handguards, prob get that same Geissle mk14 thats on the sabre, was looking at it a while back. At the end of the day the FN would be somewhere near $1500 as well.

FN 15 Guardian® | FN® Firearms

The FN 15 Guardian applies the FN battle-proven blueprint to a brand new rifle, making FN quality accessible to all home defenders and sport shooters. Proven to perform on any front, this new carbine has the critical upgrades for tack-driving accuracy, with a nitrided 16-inch CMV steel...

fnamerica.com

 

[HoLeChit]

Most parts come from the same foundaries, just different stamps. Only builder I won’t trust is Bear Creek. From personal experience, they have no quality control. Parts installed wrong (gas tube upside down) and all hardware finger tight. This seems to be the standard. As for the rest, my poor run well right along with top tier.

True, which is one of the reasons why I am hesitant to pay such a premium for a BCM or a SOLGW. $500 more and I could get something actually built by a company who actually makes their own stuff, like LMT. Funny, PSA actually manufactures an awful lot of their stuff, and seems to do a pretty good job of buying quality components from the same guys everybody else does. But their QC strategy seems to be "check some of it, if the buyer shoots it and has problems, we'll fix it". Kindof a retroactive/hindsight QC process. But, All that being said, I haven't had an issue with anything from them, and if all the bones are good, then why could they be stellar rifles with a little massaging from me or a gunsmith?

 

[O4L]

If a guy was willing to deal with a private seller in Texas this sounds like a neat pair...

https://www.glocktalk.com/threads/fs-2-nib-consecutive-daniel-defense-ddm4v7-texas-dps-edition.1981569/

 

[wolfman1]

Putting on my flame suit on but if you've got that much money don't build a mutt with no resale . Get a decent factory built gun UNLESS you never plan on selling it to finance a new toy. Much like other guns no one cares about your gucci parts you selected by hand to suit your needs or tastes. Get a Colt they hold they value and appreciate or get a LaRue or whatever tickles your fancy .

Late to this, but this^^^^

Ive got a stock Colt 6940 that will shoot damn near as tight groups as my buddy's 3K custom built gun. I see the same in LR rifles. when I first got into LR I was going to do a custom Clay Spencer build or north of 3K. A guy at the store recommended a Remington 5R for $900 which shoots .5 MOA outta de box. Unless you're planning to get into high level competition thats all you need. Same with my Remington PCR in 6.5 Creedmoor. Tack driver for a grand.

 

[WoodsCraft]

Late to this, but this^^^^

Ive got a stock Colt 6940 that will shoot damn near as tight groups as my buddy's 3K custom built gun. I see the same in LR rifles. when I first got into LR I was going to do a custom Clay Spencer build or north of 3K. A guy at the store recommended a Remington 5R for $900 which shoots .5 MOA outta de box. Unless you're planning to get into high level competition thats all you need. Same with my Remington PCR in 6.5 Creedmoor. Tack driver for a grand.

Smart you are , the problem is most people have drank the ARF koolaid when it comes to AR rifles and think they need crap they don't , I shot the barrel out of an Colt AR15 HBAR flattop years ago , and it shot sub moa with good ammo well into the 10k round count before the accuracy started to decline and even after the groups opened up it shot MOA for several thousand more rounds .