High end AR’s, diminishing returns, and reliability.

[JD8]

There's always going to be the human element/made on Friday @ 430. However, there's lots of gray area between "buying a name" because they are high end and "not buying a name" because they are considered high end. I say buy the AR on the merits of the company? Budget friendly, or expensive. Do they make none, some, or all of their own parts? How good is their QC?

Take the more budget friendly ARs. Anderson is not the same as PSA as a company. This isn't poo-pooing Anderson, but the companies just aren't the same. PSA makes a consistently better product, overall.

Pick your "high end" company in that statement and we can compare certain ones as well.

 

[WoodsCraft]

We have all seen the charts that put them in order. I always laugh since the forging and often machining are from the same place. I find it funny. But to quantify, the H&k, daniels defense, colt, cmmg all shot the same group the psa, and Anderson did. I would even add NOVESKE to that statement.

The problem is performance isn't equal and there's been enough serious reviews done to support that. A poverty pony isn't as good as a lower from LMT or Colt, (Insert your favorite quality built gun here ) . The QC makes the difference as someone else said accurately. Can you build a rifle at home which might be as reliable as a good quality factory built gun? maybe yes, if you know what you're doing; The problem is most people though who home build aren't rifle builders they are snap tite model assemblers who throw an upper on a lower and think because it shot that its as good as a Daniel Defense .

When you buy a well known reputable brand you are buying the QC that goes with it, and yes those reputable manufactures are ideed better at QC than PSA for instance . It doesn't mean that they can't be victim to getting bad parts they can, but its how they identify the problem and stand behind the warranty , etc. Someone else accurately said that PSA will fix it till its right but that they still let a higher percentage of problems out the door . That's been my observations as well along with guns from Aero and others .

As for accuracy claims that depends ... Some manufacturers just use better quality barrels than others do .

Buy Once Cry Once

 

[JD8]

We have all seen the charts that put them in order. I always laugh since the forging and often machining are from the same place. I find it funny. But to quantify, the H&k, daniels defense, colt, cmmg all shot the same group the psa, and Anderson did. I would even add NOVESKE to that statement.

The charts are garbage. I can't speak for all those companies, but doesn't H&K make their own parts? DD supposedly does. I posted a video showing PSA makes a lot of their parts.

When you say shot the same group, what does that mean? You bought all of those and did a test?

 

[HoLeChit]

Makes me want to shoot a high quality AR and see what all the hype is about.
Ruger and S&W I will never spend a dime on their stuff again.

Names I do not care about but performance I do. Show me better performance.

I honestly thought of you when I was browsing the Larue website. According to the website:

LaRue Black and Tan Rifles are highly desired for their consistency and accuracy with many customers seeing groups smaller than 1/2 MOA with match grade ammo or well constructed hand loads.

I said "man, swampratt would get on the high end train if he had an AR that shot under a half moa".

Worth a watch.....

One thing I find really interesting is that they said at the 25-26 minute mark the manufacturing numbers. 800 rifles a day and over 5000 serialized parts? Annually that 292000 rifles and 1825000 serialized parts... Makes me wonder if the QC complaints are simply due to the number of weapons made. For example, if you look at FN's .gov contracts, they have been built +/- 300,000 rifles since 2015, an average of 78 rifles per day, since 2015. granted that's just .gov contracts, and not other product lines or civilian sales. I am by no means saying PSA is jUsT aS GuD, but maybe if comparing PSA to say, BCM/SOLGW, maybe the QC issues are blown out of proportion due to them making vastly more weapons than other guys in the market? After all, 2% out of spec of over 2 million units if an awful lot more than 2% out of spec of 10,000 units (hypothetically, I can't actually find any real production numbers for quality builders) per year.

 

[retrieverman]

I don’t take accuracy claims by gun companies to seriously, because if a person can’t shoot for sh*t, a 1/2” accuracy claim by the manufacturer isn’t going to help.

 

[WoodsCraft]

I don’t take accuracy claims by gun companies to seriously, because if a person can’t shoot for sh*t, a 1/2” accuracy claim by the manufacturer isn’t going to help.

That doesn't change the inherit mechanical accuracy of the gun .

 

[ClintC]

If the company says it's 1 MOA and guarantee's it. keep sending it back tell they give you one. you wont let a car dealer get away with giving you a bad car.

 

[retrieverman]

That doesn't change the inherit mechanical accuracy of the gun .

Never said it did. I’m saying accuracy in a vise in a controlled environment isn’t the same as real world accuracy. I’m sure a 1/2” MOA guaranteed gun will do it under the right circumstances, but like I said, if a person can’t shoot, buying a 1/2” MOA rifle isn’t automatically going to make them a 1/2 MOA shooter.

 

[THE JOKER]

 

[Roy14]

I honestly thought of you when I was browsing the Larue website. According to the website:

I said "man, swampratt would get on the high end train if he had an AR that shot under a half moa".

The CEO of Larue posts pictures of the groups shot with his rifles at times on IG, the groupings are stellar. I think the current upper they sell had groups between .2 and .5, though it’s been a while since I saw the post.