If they come for your guns, do you have a responsibility to fight?

[BikerHT]

I can't believe there is so much indecision. I thought we were all supposed to play the...What if...? All the time! This certainly is one of the What if scenarios. Those thinking you don't know what you'll do until the time comes...I say BS! You know, period. You better think it through, figure it out, make a decision...get off the frigging fence. Wafflers!

Obviously the Constitution, Bill of Rights and namely, the 2nd Amendment are merely just terms some of these 'Internet Rambos' throw around. Like mentioned...pull up your iron panties! Grow some gonads! Throw down your fu@#ing feminine side and learn something. Read the link from the OP, educate yourself about the origins of this country! Check out websites like http://www.krisannehall.com/index.php/blog/143-obamas-new-gun-ban-list-a-the-2nd-amendment

If you're gonna merely coward-up, cave in, submit to "The Plan", (yes, it exists), give the gubment whatever it wants, all while they trample one right after another until you are nothing more than an 'honorable, obedient' grain of salt - I pity the family and heritage you are 'attempting' to leave. What a legacy! If you had an ounce of dignity and really give a sh^t about protecting your family, they'd be better served by you turning over all your weapons and ammo RIGHT NOW, to someone with the backbone to fight for the protection and rights of your family...cause you just ain't got it!

Oh, by the way...duplicate post from a couple of days ago...
http://www.okshooters.com/showthread.php?161425-The-Right-to-Keep-and-Bear-Arms

On edit: oh yeah, 'they' can eat some lead if they come to my place!

 

[jakerz]

@WideLoadTimmy

I can't speak for everyone else, but the way I read your post was that you would give up. If our founding fathers had the same mentality as you, we would still be under British rule. Of course, this is my opinion. Maybe I am misinterpreting you.

 

[yukonjack]

Until you've stood weapon in hand facing down others with the will and means to kill you and those around you, you have no way of knowing how you will behave. All the brave talk, posturing, moral pontification and emotional appeals to one's manhood isn't going to change that.

Not true. You have to decide beforehand what course of action you'll take. I've been there, I did what I did because I had decided beforehand what I would do. When you're facing a man pointing a rifle at you and your partner that isn't the time to engage in some great moral debate in your head. You need to get your nuts buried before the first snowfall comes.

 

[Glocktogo]

They made that oath and they have someone else giving the orders who will have, no doubt, construed it is a domestic threat and appealed to the soldiers' sense of Honor. It will be up to each individual to decide whether to follow orders and see you as the threat or not and see their superiors as the threat. This is what you bring them into.

Also, my death wouldn't change them taking my guns. they would just be "Prying them from my cold, dead hands". I can do better while still breathing. And I will be missed. It's not self preservation that makes me choose that.



I agree. But, until then, if that kind of violence broke out, we would be labeled as the bad guys by those pulling the strings. Remember, history is written by the victor. We'd have to win...have to. It's all a matter of perspective, right now. Ours and theirs. they're looking for excuses to vilify our guns, and by extension, us further. Don't get me wrong. I understand where cbolt01 is coming from. "Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.". It resonates because our Constitution and The Bill of Rights, as so eloquently put by another member (he may have been quoting, I don't know), acknowledges our freedoms as inalienable. They can't be taken away. So the amount of animosity created when someone tries to take those rights is high. it makes people emotional which is what is happening in the mind of the people trying to take our firearms. This isn't productive and devolves into the 'You just try to take 'em" mentality. I think we, as shooting enthusiasts should come together under a common banner and make ourselves heard but I don't think shouting that "they'll get my guns, bullets first" will do anything but engender sympathy for the other side.

I'll leave the saber rattling to others. However, here's a sample of what I just sent to Gen. McChrystal:

General McChrystal,

I was very disappointed to hear you come out in favor of stripping the right of Americans to own semi-automatic firearms with military features. I was doubly disappointed to hear you describe what is essentially a varmint cartridge as too devastating to be on our streets. While I'm sure your characterizations were pleasing to whomever you intended to curry favor with, they are disingenuous and misleading. Firearms with military features have been a staple of the American people since revolutionary times. There are far more powerful cartridges in civilian hands today, such as the 30-06. Of course, you weren't in the military when arms like the M1 Garand were devastating human bodies. Bodies of our foreign enemies.

There were no conditions, nor was there an expiration date on your sworn oath to "support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic, that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same...". I remind you of your oath sir, because you seem to have forgotten it in your retirement. As clarified in United States v. Miller and reiterated in Heller v. D.C., the right of American citizens to possess arms suitable for militia use and "those in common use for lawful purposes" are protected by the 2nd Amendment of the Constitution of the United States, and shall not be infringed.

I am disappointed to discover the need to remind a Four Star General of his oath. I'm disturbed by your lack of allegiance to the Constitution of the United States and your lack of faith in the American people. I am saddened by your willingness to place political gain before the good of the nation, which is under attack from within. May I remind you sir, that we do not live in a Democracy as your associates are fond of saying, but a Constitutional Republic, with all the necessary restraints placed upon those who would undermine the liberty of our nation and her citizenry. Unlike you sir, many of us have a long memory. Though you seem to have forgotten these important details, we shall not forget your betrayal of the principles which guided our Founding Fathers. I would hope you dare not consider your service or sacrifices to exceed theirs.

Regards,

Jerry D. Biggs
American Citizen

Our best efforts are needed NOW, to avoid learning what our actions will turn out to be under the OP's scenario!

 

[jakerz]

Nice letter GlocktoGo. Let us know if he responds.

 

[ripnbst]

Those saying there will never be a door to door grab of all guns is right. They will do it in stages so that no one is alarmed. Remember Hitler? He didn't start with a big list of people, first it was just vagrants, prostitutes, etc, then it was blacks, then it was, then, then, then.

First it was just assault weapons, then anything with a mag over 6, then anything semi automatic, then then then.

Which is why it's important to stop it in the beginning.

I know which camp I'm in. The one with a campfire burning as a beacon of hope and freedom in the hearts of its inhabitants.

 

[BrandonMF]

For those of you citing Children as your cause for compliance...May your chains be not a burden and all that stuff. Jesus Christ, the Children is why you should be willing to fight. I know the ONLY reason I give two cents on the issue is because I don't want my AK47 to be destroyed when I die. I want it to go to my Son. I want him to inherit my 30 round magazines. I want him to be able to own what the **** ever he wants. I want him to be a leader and not a follower. I want him to know that some things are worth fighting for, standing up for, and yes paying the consequences for if they were worth standing up for in the first place. I want the culture of self-reliance, self-determination and the attitude that your own fate is in your own hands to never disappear from the face of the earth.

Christ Jesus, if it were ONLY about MY guns and MY ability to blow chunks of dirt out of a berm and the speed and consistency I could do that at, I would be happy with a Bolt action and a revolver. A single action revolver, even. If all this was REALLY about "toys for boys" that go bang bang really fast, I would give as many F!@*s as there are flowers in the Desert. If it were just a hobby, I would be all for "common sense" regulations in the name of public safety.

But it's not about a hobby. It's not. It's about the most noble culture on the face of the earth. It's about having a say in how things are ran. It's about saying I may just be an average commoner but I have rights too goddammit so you'll call me a Citizen and afford my opinion some respect. A petition is all well and good but the ONLY thing that forces them to afford fair and free elections, petitions and protests any respect is that just underneath that there is an unspoken threat of violence if you violate our will.

We already allow a government to lord over us, passing secret laws in the dead of night and limiting our freedoms and liberties in the name of compromise and security. We already have a government that threatens us with armed men willing to do violence on their behalf to ensure we pay our taxes or they will come and either kill us in our sleep or take everything we own, and we allow that every single week! The government more and more has a huge say in our life, from what foods we can grow in our backyard to what insurance you feel you should have on your car and on your home at a minimum.

Now, if we allow that RIGHT NOW, what do you think will be allowed without that unspoken threat of violence that ensures our voices mean something? I'll tell you what will ensure We The People have a say if we remove guns from our nation; The good will and charity of our Masters. It is NOt free will, or self-determination and I do not want my children living in a world where those traits make you a dissenter and not a Patriot, where they must rely on others to secure what I should have been willing to secure for them.

Yes it's retarded. No, life shouldn't be like that. But you know what? It is! Because it is the natural state of humanity! The natural state of humanity is oppression! Thankfully, Civilization is built around the systematic process of denying our base human nature, which is why the Commoner was ensured arms and an equal say in the Constitution (yes I know it was originally meant as Landowners, but at the time Yeoman "commoners" owned land as well), because our natural state is tyrannical tribal feudalism. Progressives don't understand that their Agendas, instead of a massive leaps forward in human thinking, is actually a massive regression backwards toward tyrannical tribal feudalism.

Luckily though, I do, and I personally do not want my children to grow up in a world in regressive decline towards the darkest days of Humanity, so I'll fight tooth and nail using all of the four boxes our Forefathers guaranteed us as our birthright to resist such changes in our great culture. All FOUR boxes, not concentrating on just one, or two.

The Cartridge box is the very last, because once you open it you can not close it again until you are victorious, or dead. I may sound like I speak of this all too lightly, and that is not the case. However, if what I say seems casual, it is only because it is the line I have decided on long ago and have accepted in my heart as my course. It is not a light matter, and God willing the first three boxes will be enough to save our culture and our rights. Those who look forward to what could come are fools. If 100% of us that say "this is my line and do not cross it" truly mean what we say, then 90% will not live more than a few months and that is being generous. It's not a fantasy masturbatory shtf novel, and I don't wish to portray it as such. However, it is how our political system works, and removing guns is akin to removing an entire branch of the Government, because the rifle's bark is the very last Voice We The People own to speak against Tyranny. To turn that voice over to those who would strip it from you and your son and their son's for the sake of your children's future is short sighted and shameful.

I'm not advocating pushing for it, wishing for it, instigating it or even preparing for it because we can't win the political battle. We can. We still have a lot more boxes to go before we get to that terrible last one. I simply wish to persuade some on here that this battle is worth fighting for, and outlining my reasons why.

 

[Cinaet]

Remember Hitler?

Godwin's Law.

No offence to you ripnbst. Just pointing out the inevitable.

 

[jakerz]

Godwin's Law.

No offence to you ripnbst. Just pointing out the inevitable.

There's also Mao, and Stalin. But you're right. Comparing something to nazi's is inevitable.

 

[Drebin]

Great letter GTG! I couldn't have said it better myself, in fact, I'd like to put my name on that letter and send it to him as well. If you are ok with that and think it's a good idea.