K98k's and politics

[been]

You just have to look at the morality of the intent:
K98 was the spear-head of ethnic cleansing of Europe issued to Nazi forces to do the cleansing.
MN was issued to Russians defending USSR from invading Nazis.

Hypocrisy of the communists can not be overstated - they were murdering and enslaving bastards; the big difference that they were doing it under the flag of "what's best for the masses". Nazis did it under the flag of "what's best for us" - and it's hard to call 'em hypocritical. It is very easy to call Nazis and their ideology pure evil!

I agree that in the beginning of the war the 8mm cartridge took many Jewish lives. But the gas killed much more. I think the wartime K98 was produced not with the idea that "this will kill the jew" but more of "this will kill the allies" as our rifles were made with the idea that "this will kill the axis"

I believe both the Nazis in power and soviets in power were pure evil. But im not going to call their tools pure evil.

 

[TedKennedy]

For some inresting history, check out the Finn M-39s. Finland M-Ns and made decent rifles out of them. Then went to work on the Communist hoardes, as they were invaded. Good old USSR! Just defending its people.

 

[MoBoost]

I agree that in the beginning of the war the 8mm cartridge took many Jewish lives. But the gas killed much more. I think the wartime K98 was produced not with the idea that "this will kill the jew" but more of "this will kill the allies" as our rifles were made with the idea that "this will kill the axis"

Nazis never had hate for Allies - they thought that British and Americans will see the "mistakes of their ways" till the very end - non-Aryans (aka Jews and Slavs) had no place on earth in their ideology: ethnic cleansing was not a side-effect of Nazi war-machine but one if its primary purposes. I don't know why it's so hard to comprehend.

I believe both the Nazis in power and soviets in power were pure evil. But im not going to call their tools pure evil.

So how "un-pure" is the evil of gas-chambers ... just a tool, right?

 

[cjjtulsa]

No gas chambers for sale. In fact, there are no real gas chambers you can even visit.

 

[been]

Nazis never had hate for Allies - they thought that British and Americans will see the "mistakes of their ways" till the very end - non-Aryans (aka Jews and Slavs) had no place on earth in their ideology: ethnic cleansing was not a side-effect of Nazi war-machine but one if its primary purposes. I don't know why it's so hard to comprehend.


So how "un-pure" is the evil of gas-chambers ... just a tool, right?

does it have commercial use? Can it defend your family? Can it put food on the table?

 

[caojyn]

Nobody denies atrocities of war committed by individual soldiers or units; we can criticize decisions that are covered under "lesser of the evils"; that however does not take away atrocities sanctioned by ideologies (not nations - that would be hypocritical) - Nazi industrialized civilian population extermination is par none.

Didn't Hitler base his extermination of non Aryans on Andrew Jackson's extermination of the Native Americans?

I sure hope your not using a computer, since IBM's technology helped facilitate Nazi genocide against the Jewish people through generation and tabulation of punch cards based upon national census data. I would imagine that IBM is responsible for more Jewish deaths than the K98

 

[Perplexed]

Nazis never had hate for Allies - they thought that British and Americans will see the "mistakes of their ways" till the very end - non-Aryans (aka Jews and Slavs) had no place on earth in their ideology: ethnic cleansing was not a side-effect of Nazi war-machine but one if its primary purposes. I don't know why it's so hard to comprehend.


So how "un-pure" is the evil of gas-chambers ... just a tool, right?

Mo, while I can see why you might have hatred for the Nazi regime and their political agenda and atrocities, I'm not sure how you can differentiate between the Nazi's and the Soviets in this regard. By the way, only about 10-15% of German nationals were members of the Nazi Party, so to call Germans "Nazi's" is not necessarily accurate.

After all, Stalin had it out for the Poles, and he ordered his forces to engage in systematic removal of many thousands of Poles from their homeland, and the Polish intelligentsia was singled out for liquidation. For example, the murder of some 20,000 Polish officers in the forests around Katyn, and the execution of another 6,000 Polish soldiers near the Ukranian town of Dergachi. Then there was the forced deportation of tens of thousands of Estonians and Lithuanians, and the killing of some 3 million slave laborers in the Kolyma gulags, to say nothing of the mass starvation of many Ukranians due to the forced removal of their foodstuffs. There's much more that can be said about Soviet pre-war, wartime, and post-war crimes against humanity.

My point being, if you're going to condemn the Mauser K98k as being a tool of the evil Nazi's, then you have to do the same for the Mosin Nagant 91 and 91/30 as being a tool of the evil Soviets.

 

[caojyn]

Mo, while I can see why you might have hatred for the Nazi regime and their political agenda and atrocities, I'm not sure how you can differentiate between the Nazi's and the Soviets in this regard. By the way, only about 10-15% of German nationals were members of the Nazi Party, so to call Germans "Nazi's" is not necessarily accurate.

After all, Stalin had it out for the Poles, and he ordered his forces to engage in systematic removal of many thousands of Poles from their homeland, and the Polish intelligentsia was singled out for liquidation. For example, the murder of some 20,000 Polish officers in the forests around Katyn, and the execution of another 6,000 Polish soldiers near the Ukranian town of Dergachi. Then there was the forced deportation of tens of thousands of Estonians and Lithuanians, and the killing of some 3 million slave laborers in the Kolyma gulags, to say nothing of the mass starvation of many Ukranians due to the forced removal of their foodstuffs. There's much more that can be said about Soviet pre-war, wartime, and post-war crimes against humanity.

My point being, if you're going to condemn the Mauser K98k as being a tool of the evil Nazi's, then you have to do the same for the Mosin Nagant 91 and 91/30 as being a tool of the evil Soviets.

Don't forget Stalin's standing RAPE order...

 

[MoBoost]

Mo, while I can see why you might have hatred for the Nazi regime and their political agenda and atrocities, I'm not sure how you can differentiate between the Nazi's and the Soviets in this regard. By the way, only about 10-15% of German nationals were members of the Nazi Party, so to call Germans "Nazi's" is not necessarily accurate.

After all, Stalin had it out for the Poles, and he ordered his forces to engage in systematic removal of many thousands of Poles from their homeland, and the Polish intelligentsia was singled out for liquidation. For example, the murder of some 20,000 Polish officers in the forests around Katyn, and the execution of another 6,000 Polish soldiers near the Ukranian town of Dergachi. Then there was the forced deportation of tens of thousands of Estonians and Lithuanians, and the killing of some 3 million slave laborers in the Kolyma gulags, to say nothing of the mass starvation of many Ukranians due to the forced removal of their foodstuffs. There's much more that can be said about Soviet pre-war, wartime, and post-war crimes against humanity.

My point being, if you're going to condemn the Mauser K98k as being a tool of the evil Nazi's, then you have to do the same for the Mosin Nagant 91 and 91/30 as being a tool of the evil Soviets.

I never said anything about Germany or German people. My attacks are on the Nazis.

You don't need to preach to me about Stalin's agenda - I lost my great-grand-father to Stalin's purges; see, having a lady help with 9 kids after your wife dies from starvation was anti-proletariat ....
Anyhow, pointing out what "Soviets" did is historically valuable, but still doesn't dull the evil of Nazi intentions and deeds; basically you can throw dirt around all you want - **** is still ****.

 

[Perplexed]

I never said anything about Germany or German people. My attacks are on the Nazis.

You don't need to preach to me about Stalin's agenda - I lost my great-grand-father to Stalin's purges; see, having a lady help with 9 kids after your wife dies from starvation was anti-proletariat ....
Anyhow, pointing out what "Soviets" did is historically valuable, but still doesn't dull the evil of Nazi intentions and deeds; basically you can throw dirt around all you want - **** is still ****.

OK, you concede that the Soviets, like the Nazi's, perpetrated much evil, both unplanned and systematic, correct?

So how can you be down on the Mauser K98k as a tool of an evil regime... but not say the same about the MN 91/30 being a tool of another evil regime? I haven't seen many of your postings regarding the morality of owning one or the other of these firearms, but what I've read has been wholly negative about the K98k. Why not the MN's as well?

By the way, I know you have or had a PU sniper - and are very good with it, from what I've heard