Legal to carry in polling place?

[shooterdave]

As someone has already said, citing the information gives proof that it exists from a credible source. Just because someone says something doesn't make it true. I have been asked for cites before and gladly provided them. What's wrong with being asked for a cite on a vague and seemingly undocumented issue.

What if your political debate was with 2 candidates, neither of whom were currently an elected official. It would be legal to carry at the park (not a prohibited place) since this is not a meeting of elected officials.

Following your logic, why would anyone do anything that ever made anyone else uncomfortable? Heaven forbid we should do that. Lets get rid of our new open carry law because some people won't like seeing guns in the possession of lawful citizens. Better yet, lets get rid of concealed carry as well because of the trauma it can cause people just knowing there are people around who might be carrying a gun.

A question was asked because a factual answer was unknown, what's wrong with wanting to know the answer to the question?

This the post I was quoting. I DO APOLIGIZE as it was not your post. You guys have the same avatar and I believed it to be you.

 

[shooterdave]

I must have missed where you were bashed. I think someone asked you for a cite, but that's hardly bashing. One thing is for sure, it's an interesting legal argument, and the Sisson case will tell us who the court agrees with. However, I don't think there's any purpose served by taking it personally.

To be honest, I didn't take it personal at all, until I read the post that I mis quoted you as writing. I'm as conservative as most on this board, but the laws reads very clear to me. To be lumped in with those who are anti 2A IS a personal attack to me...

 

[AKguy1985]

So cliff notes........Don't carry into a polling place????

 

[hrdware]

This the post I was quoting. I DO APOLIGIZE as it was not your post. You guys have the same avatar and I believed it to be you.

I don't see where you got bashing out of my post, and I certainly didn't lump you in with any Anti-2A folk.

You made a comment about people being uncomfortable around firearms. So I said that since some people are uncomfortable around them we should do away with all our carry laws.

You see the issue as cut and dry. I, and others, do not. I called OSBI about this issue on election day and although OSBI can not give out legal advice, they were of the opinion that it would be legal to carry into a polling place that was on private property. They did recommend that I call the county election board and talk to them about it. Their phone was busy that day. Apparently Mr. Sisson called them as well as was given the same information, at least as far as their interpretation.

The SDA does not prohibit carrying a firearm at a government function. It prevents carry at owned or leased buildings or office space for doing business with the public. The key here is if a lease existed.

The SDA also prohibits carrying at a meeting of elected or appointed officials. I do not believe volunteers at a polling place fall under the legal definition of a public meeting.

I have looked in statute (and administrative rules) to try and determine if the election boards create leases with polling locations. I could not find anything about this. I did ask the pastor at my church and found out that our church does receive a nominal payment for allowing the election board to use our facility.

So while you may see this as a cut and dry issue, others do not. This could also go farther than just a polling place.

Lets take polling places out of it. How would a person know if the government had a lease with any private property owner to do any event. The city of Moore sponsors a downtown trick-or-treat night in downtown. Would it then be illegal to carry a firearm onto private property because there was a government function going on? What if the Mayor went to talk to the local Rotary club about civic matters, as part of his job function. Would this now be a prohibited place because the Mayor was doing business with the public? No lease exists, but it a a function of the government. While this case may seem cut and dry on the surface, the ruling on the case can have a greater reach than what may appear on the surface.

 

[jstaylor62]

Wow, you mean that someone was arrested for doing the EXACT SAME THING that all of you were bashing me for trying to explain??? Interesting. Maybe all 15 of these years in law enforcement wasn't a complete waste... So much for pulling it out of my a$$, huh?

No offense ShooterDave, but what you can get arrested for can greatly vary from what you can get convicted of. We really dont know enough of the details of the Sisson case to make accurate arguements. I think we need additional clarification in the law or case law to a clear up a couple of vague issues.

TITLE 21 § 1277. Unlawful carry in certain places
UNLAWFUL CARRY IN CERTAIN PLACES
A. It shall be unlawful for any person in possession of a valid concealed handgun license issued pursuant to the provisions of the Oklahoma Self-Defense Act to carry any concealed handgun into any of the following places:
1. Any structure, building, or office space which is owned or leased by a city, town, county, state, or federal governmental authority for the purpose of conducting business with the public;
2. Any meeting of any city, town, county, state or federal officials, school board members, legislative members, or any other elected or appointed officials;

For me anyway, I would like to see the following clarified:

1. Is a polling place hosted on private property for free considered to be Government property?
The Law is clear that a Government location is any property that the Government Owns or Leases. But what about the circumstance where it is not clear if the property has been leased for a fee?

2. Is the activity at a polling location considered to be a meeting of government officials?
The Law is clear that you are prevented from carrying a concealed firearm into a meeting of Government officals. Polling locations are run by volunteers. Are they elected or appointed into their positions?

 

[yukonjack]

Precinct workers are paid, they are not volunteers. The rate of pay is either $97 or $87 per day depending on their position. There is an oath of office for precinct workers. The State enters into a lease for each polling place. That gives them the right to have the polling place open from 7:00a.m. to 7:00p.m. It also gives them the right to control what activites are conducted within the polling place. It's been this way for years. If there wasn't a lease agreement in place then it would leave voters and the State at the whim of the property owner.

 

[Glocktogo]

Precinct workers are paid, they are not volunteers. The rate of pay is either $97 or $87 per day depending on their position. There is an oath of office for precinct workers. The State enters into a lease for each polling place. That gives them the right to have the polling place open from 7:00a.m. to 7:00p.m. It also gives them the right to control what activites are conducted within the polling place. It's been this way for years. If there wasn't a lease agreement in place then it would leave voters and the State at the whim of the property owner.

Can you provide a citation for verification? Thanks.

 

[yukonjack]

It won't let me post the links to the individual pages.

https://www.sos.ok.gov/oar/online/viewCode.aspx

230:35-3-30. Pre-Election Expense Claim
(a) When the state, the county, a school district, a municipality, or any other governmental entity calls an election to be conducted by the County Election Board, the Secretary of the County Election Board shall prepare an estimate of the number of Precinct Officials, Absentee Voting Board members, and any authorized special-purpose precinct workers required for the election, and the amount of compensation for all Precinct Officials, Absentee Voting Board members, and any special-purpose precinct workers. [26:3-105.1(A)] The estimate also shall include mileage reimbursement for Inspectors to pick up and return election supplies and materials, for Precinct Officials and special-purpose precinct workers assigned to polling places located ten miles or more from their homes, and for one member of each nursing home Absentee Voting Board. The Secretary shall prepare the estimate, which shall be known as a Pre-Election Expense Claim, in OEMS using the appropriate Pre-Election Expense Claim report. The Pre-Election Expense Claim shall be submitted to the entity not less than 35 days prior to the election. [26:3-105.1(A)]
(b) The compensation for Precinct Officials, Absentee Voting Board members, and any authorized special-purpose precinct workers shall be billed as follows.
(1) Inspector. The Inspector shall receive a total of $97 for an election. The Inspector also shall be reimbursed for mileage for two round trips from his home to the County Election Board office at the rate currently allowed by the Internal Revenue Service for a business expense deduction. An Inspector assigned to a polling place located ten miles or more from his or her home also may be reimbursed for one-way mileage from home to the assigned polling place. See 230:35-3-31.1.
(A) Statewide elections. For a statewide election, the State Election Board shall be billed $95 per Inspector. The State Election Board also shall be billed for the total amount of mileage reimbursement for the Inspectors. The county shall be billed $2 per Inspector for a statewide election.
(B) Other elections. For a county election, a school district election, a municipal election or any other election, the entity authorizing the election shall be billed $97 per Inspector, plus the total amount of mileage reimbursement for the Inspectors.
(2) Judge and Clerk. The Judge and Clerk each shall receive a total of $87 for an election. In addition, a Judge or Clerk assigned to a polling place located ten miles or more from his or her home may be reimbursed for round-trip mileage from home to the assigned polling place. See 230:35-3-31.1.
(A) Statewide elections. For a statewide election, the State Election Board shall be billed $85 per Judge and $85 per Clerk. The county shall be billed $2 per Judge and $2 per Clerk. The State Election Board also shall be billed for any mileage paid to Judges and Clerks.
(B) Other elections. For a county election, a school district election, a municipal election or any other election, the entity authorizing the election shall be billed $87 per Judge and $87 per Clerk. The entity also shall be billed for any mileage paid to Judges and Clerks.
(3) Absentee Voting Board members. Absentee Voting Board members each shall receive $87 for each day they serve for an election. In addition, one member of each nursing home Absentee Voting Board shall receive mileage reimbursement for the round trip from the County Election Board office to the nursing home or homes.
(A) Statewide elections. For a statewide election, the State Election Board shall be billed for the total amount of $87 per Absentee Voting Board member plus mileage for one member of each nursing home Absentee Voting Board.
(B) Other elections. For a county election, a school election, a municipal election, or any other election, the entity authorizing the election shall be billed $87 for each Absentee Voting Board member for each day served plus mileage for one member of each nursing home Absentee Voting Board.
(4) Special-purpose precinct workers. Special-purpose precinct workers, such as Provisional Voting Officers or Registration Officials, shall receive $87 for an election. In addition, a special-purpose precinct worker assigned to a polling place ten miles or more from his or her home may be reimbursed for round-trip mileage from home to the assigned polling place.
(A) Statewide elections. For a statewide election, the State Election Board shall be billed $85 per special-purpose precinct worker. The county shall be billed $2 per special-purpose precinct worker. The State Election Board also shall be billed for any mileage paid to special-purpose precinct workers.
(B) Other elections. For a county election, a school district election, a municipal election or any other election, the entity authorizing the election shall be billed $87 per special-purpose precinct worker. The entity also shall be billed for any mileage paid to special-purpose precinct workers.
(5) Mileage. Mileage is reimbursed at the rate currently allowed by the Internal Revenue Service for a business expense deduction.
(c) When two or more entities hold elections on the same date and two or more of the entities are involved in the same precinct, the cost of Precinct Official and special-purpose precinct worker compensation and mileage reimbursement shall be divided equally among the entities involved in each precinct and the cost of Absentee Voting Board compensation and mileage reimbursement shall be divided equally among all the entities involved in the election. However, if a school district election is held on the same date as a county election, the county shall assume the school district's share of Precinct Official, special-purpose precinct worker, and Absentee Voting Board compensation and mileage.
[Source: Amended at 9 Ok Reg 1231, eff 3-1-92 (emergency); Amended at 9 Ok Reg 2387, eff 7-1-92; Amended at 14 Ok Reg 2631, eff 7-1-97; Amended at 15 Ok Reg 2567, eff 7-1-98; Amended at 16 Ok Reg 534, eff 1-1-99 (emergency); Amended at 16 Ok Reg 2427, eff 7-1-99; Amended at 18 Ok Reg 1874, eff 7-1-01; Amended at 21 Ok Reg 3149, eff 7-22-04 (emergency); Amended at 22 Ok Reg 1884, eff 7-1-05; Amended at 23 Ok Reg 80, eff 9-1-05 (emergency); Amended at 23 Ok Reg 1290, eff 7-1-06]

230:10-7-108. Number and location of polling places
(a) There must be one polling place for each precinct, and that polling place must be located within the geographical boundaries of the precinct. [26:3-120]
(b) The State Election Board is authorized to make exceptions to the requirement that a polling place be located within the geographical boundaries of the precinct. However, exceptions will be granted only in those instances in which it can be shown that compliance is impossible. In order to obtain such an exception, the Secretary must make written application to the State Election Board setting forth the reasons why compliance is not possible and detailing the actions which have been taken to locate a polling place within the boundaries of the affected precinct. The State Election Board will notify the Secretary, in writing, of its decision regarding the request.
(c) Approval of a request to locate a polling place outside precinct boundaries shall be valid for only one calendar year. At the end of the year, if a polling place still cannot be located within the precinct's boundaries, the Secretary of the County Election Board must make another request for an exception. Requests to continue locating a polling place outside precinct boundaries may be approved by the Secretary of the State Election Board.
[Source: Amended at 14 Ok Reg 2621, eff 7-1-97]

230:10-7-111. Liability
Persons, businesses, churches and any other nongovernmental entities providing space for use as a polling place shall not be held liable for any torts (civil lawsuits) arising from any incident occurring in such space during the period when such space is used as a polling place. [26:3-120]

230:10-7-110. Boards to provide polling places
The Board of Education of any school district may, and the governing board of any municipality, shall furnish a room or rooms in any school building or municipal building for use as a polling place at no cost. [26:3-123]
[Source: Amended at 27 Ok Reg 1122, eff 6-1-10]

 

[shooterdave]

Well, it seems that the one thing we all can agree on is that this issue needs to be specifically addressed in 21-1277 or 21-1290. One way or the other...

 

[cmhbob]

I think it's already addressed in 1277:

Section 1277(A) provides in pertinent part:

A. It shall be unlawful for any person in possession of a valid handgun license issued pursuant to the provisions of the Oklahoma Self-Defense Act to carry any concealed or unconcealed handgun into any of the following places:

1. Any structure, building, or office space which is owned or leased by a city, town, county, state, or federal governmental authority for the purpose of conducting business with the public;

Tulsa County leases polling places from private property owners for $50 for the day. I know Tulsa is not Oklahoma, but I wasn't going to bother an Elections Board that's probably already getting hammered. Other than a possible rate difference, I wouldn't expect counties to do things that differently. But I've only live in OK for about 14 months.

The only possible thing I can see them doing would be to require a gunbuster symbol or language to the signage posted at the door to the polling place.

GlockToGo, if you PM me your email, I'll forward the messages I traded with Tulsa County.