Military to use lethal force against Americans??🤬

[ConstitutionCowboy]

So you can't think of any scenario where it would be acceptable, and even appropriate, for US military units to engage US citizens?

Look it up in the Constitution, Article I, Section 8, Clause 15. The only force available to the US Government to execute laws and suppress insurrections - as well as repel invasions - is to employ the militia. No power is granted to the federal government to employ any branch of the military for law enforcement. Those laws that supposedly authorize the military to engage in law enforcement are unconstitutional.

Also note that since the assignment of officers in the militia is no longer the purview of the several states, the National Guard is therefore not the militia. Article I, Section 8, Clause 16 is quite clear regarding the assignment of officers in the militia. Ergo, it is unconstitutional to employ the National Guard to execute the laws of the Union or suppress insurrections.

It is neither acceptable nor appropriate for the US Military to engage US Citizens.

Woody

 

[OK Corgi Rancher]

My statement you quoted says nothing about military personnel being deployed for law enforcement purposes. I'm just gonna ignore all that.

So if armed intruders, who are US citizens, attempt to violently breach a secure area on a military base where something like nuclear weapons are stored, in an effort to gain control over those weapons, military personnel can't use lethal force to stop them. Got it.

Some of you guys are so dogmatic you can't even use common sense.

 

[CHenry]

If the world sees something of this nature we are fooked

 

[dennishoddy]

I don't think that's true. When I was a deputy in CO, after one of the large fires in the early 90s I rode with some COANG guys patrolling evacuated subdivisions in the mountains to discourage looting. They didn't have M16s, but they carried loaded M9s.

Look at the pictures of the soldiers patrolling around the Capitol after Jan 6 and get back with me.
No magazines inserted.

 

[OK Corgi Rancher]

OK... Let's try another scenario. One that came damn close to happening.

You have a known, hijacked airliner. The hijackers are in control of the aircraft. They're flying it towards a civilian target where, if they're successful they might kill hundreds, or even a few thousand, innocent US citizens. You know this because several other hijacked planes have already been flown into buildings. Those onboard are unable to pull off a "Flight 93" thwarting of the hijackers.

The president has USAF F16s standing by to down the aircraft.

Does he order them to fire or let things play out as they might?

 

[OK Corgi Rancher]

Look at the pictures of the soldiers patrolling around the Capitol after Jan 6 and get back with me.
No magazines inserted.

I'm back to you. So from those pictures you're able to glean official ROEs of the NG? Or is it just anecdotal evidence of what happened on Jan 6?

 

[dennishoddy]

Land was actually allocated for school land in Oklahoma before the 1889 land run took place so those 160 acres could not be claimed. example the land where Oklahoma City Community College sets is one such tract.
In T11N R4W where my great grandfather filed his claim for 160 acres in the '89 land run there were 2 160acre tracts reserved for school land.

We own 160 acres of the old school land that the state let go to private sale. For four generations, that land has been know as the "school corner". A couple of OSA members have dove hunted that property with me.

 

[dennishoddy]

I agree with you a lot but not on this one. Vietnam wasn't a war, it was a game. Wars are fought to be won, and the USA never even tried to win that one.

Blame that on the politicians, not the Military. Don't tell the ones that served there it wasn't a war.
This table contains record counts based on the codes recorded in the “CASUALTY CATEGORY” field of the Vietnam Conflict Extract Data File. In the case of the “PRESUMED DEAD (BODY REMAINS RECOVERED)” and “PRESUMED DEAD (BODY REMAINS NOT RECOVERED)” categories of the table, the record counts are based on the codes in both the “CASUALTY CATEGORY” and “REMAINS RECOVERED” fields.

Casualty Category	Number of Records​
ACCIDENT	9,107​
DECLARED DEAD	1,201​
DIED OF WOUNDS	5,299​
HOMICIDE	236​
ILLNESS	938​
KILLED IN ACTION	40,934​
PRESUMED DEAD (BODY REMAINS RECOVERED)	32​
PRESUMED DEAD (BODY REMAINS NOT RECOVERED)	91​
SELF-INFLICTED	382​
Total Records	58,220​

It was a war, not a game.

 

[OK Corgi Rancher]

Not Jan 6th...but in DC. Those look like magazines to me. My guess is there's no round chambered, though.

 

[dennishoddy]

I'm back to you. So from those pictures you're able to glean official ROEs of the NG? Or is it just anecdotal evidence of what happened on Jan 6?

Was there a directive? Can't say with any proof. Can you with one incident in your career?
As we both know there are situations where a standard order can be overridden in certain situations.
I spent 12 years in the 92nd Army Reserve in the 70's and 80's after active duty. The M-16's and M-60's were removed from our armory in the 70's, basically rendering us useless as a military unit.
The local NG unit, the 45th lost theirs as well. The NG unit retained their .22RF rifles the competition unit shot with though.
I can't speak for your incident, but certainly noticed the lack of mags on Jan 6.