Obama announces restrictions on distribution of military-style equipment to police

[Raoul Duke]

The CMP can sell full auto rifles?

I imagine they would have the expertise and technology to convert them to semi-auto for civilian use.

 

[dennishoddy]

No body is talking about snow cats. People should be worried when they see American streets looking like Iraq. Heavy armored vehicles, drones, grenade launchers, etc have no place on our streets to be used against Americans. Like I said, just a step in the right direction.

I agree, kinda. The police have became too Militarized even without the government handouts.

Other than a couple of well publicized incidents in the past, where a well armed criminal has outgunned the local force that was under gunned for that incident, 99.99% don't require the massive force of an MRAP in small town USA.

Proponents of the MRAP can argue that it can be used to shield and recover LEO or victim that is down in the field of fire. Nobody can argue that.

The argument is that if those Military surplus vehicles/equipment was not available, how would the LEO agency's handled the same situation.

Koresch in Waco is a prime example. If they had just waited them out, letting them run out of food, and shut off their water, it would have came to a peaceful conclusion. Instead they put the barrel of a tank into the building, and injected tear gas. How the fire started is up for discussion, but women and innocent children were burned to death by this action. Janet Reno or any other person responsible for these murders were never prosecuted.

They would have came out when they got hungry.

I see reports every day on TV where SWAT goes into a home in the middle of the night with night vision and kills the wrong person or gets one of their own killed. Wrong addresses are common. All of these midnight smash and arrest could be resolved by waiting on the perp to go the the convenience store and bust them on the way. Nobody in the chain of command gets prosecuted for the most part. Just an Aw ShEt.

The USA is not a war zone.

Lets put some common sense back into Law Enforcement.

Feel free to disagree.

 

[1krr]

One thing to think about though, is how much our society has changed in those 16 years. I was just a youngster in 95, just moved to Oklahoma, but people have progressively grown into a bunch of looting, selfish, unreasonable hate/fearmongers. Burning and looting and attacking each other because we heard a rumor on Facebook that a guy that we never gave a crap about/have no clue who he is died in police custody? Come on now. While I feel the weaponization and tactics of the police may have grown a bit aggressive, a lot of it is necessary, judging by society now days. This isn't mayberry with ol Andy Griffith anymore.

That kind of crap has been going on forever. Motorcycle gangs shooting it up, looting, riots, drugs, and all that aren't new as of 2011. There is nothing new under the sun today that wasn't there in '95 or '55 or '25 or the days of Al Capone, Jesse James, Jack the Ripper, and so on. What is different is that a public image and very visible police presence in the community has been translated into a tacticool paramilitary image with aggressive policing through intimidation. Plus, putting an officer in a sharp dressed uniform in a very well marked police car that is out in the community has a much greater effect on crime than unmarked cars with hidden lights that no one knows is a cop. Police don't stop crime. Policing is an entirely reactionary function and it should be per our Constitution. But they can deter it and the best way to do so is to be well seen in the community. There is a revered place in the world for Officer Friendly.

Old neighbor was an OHP Capitan. Greatest guy ever. Big ol boy who loved to show off his car and OHP motorcycle to kids and such where ever he went. He would have no problem putting the whoopin on a violent sht bag who wanted to fight him or cause mayhem but stop to help or at least protect a tire changer on the way home. Still to this day I remember him as well respected in the neighborhood, always representing the best values but not so uptight that he wouldn't have a beer or shoot some illegal bottle rockets with the block party. He was sharp dressed, had an OHP camaro that was always waxed and polished, and even hung out with we local gear heads a little. Anyway, that is what a cop should look like, should act like, and that OHP Capitan sets the standard for me all cops I meet are judged against. Those are the guys we need more of.

 

[uncle money bags]

I am far less concerned with the police having military equipment than I am about how it is used. If the possession of "military grade equipment" makes someone a tyrant then most of my friends must be murderers. It is the mindset and attitude of the person, not the inanimate object that needs to be addressed. And there is plenty of that to go around.

 

[MadDogs]

Interesting dynamic. Rioters and assorted dipsticks are dropping cinder blocks on LEOs and when the police show up they are told that they are over-equipped.

Maybe we should ask police agencies to return to S&W M10’s with 158gr RN lead bullets? After all, we wouldn’t want criminals to think they have a disadvantage?

Some of the surplus equipment is obviously not necessary for most local, county or state agencies. But some of it can be of use. Given this, shouldn’t it be up to the agency to decide and not the federal government what equipment they should or should not have? Really trust B HO and his merry band of incompetents to make the right call here?

Tp this, I would rather see local LEOs over-equipped than Obama’s brown shirt “civilian defense force” that he mentioned in 2007 with superior equipment.

 

[Kyle78]

I still can't figure out how people think wearing helmets/vests and other protective gear is "Militarization". It's safety gear ffs.
I can go purchase a grenade launcher and stick it on my AR/AK with out having to get it from the Government.

Obama's new rules amount to doing nothing. It's just Fluff. The Biggest Racist/Cop Hater is our President.
With Obama and other minority leaders telling youth it's ok to assault and riot, your going to see a lot more of the "militarized" police..

 

[dennishoddy]

Interesting dynamic. Rioters and assorted dipsticks are dropping cinder blocks on LEOs and when the police show up they are told that they are over-equipped.

Maybe we should ask police agencies to return to S&W M10’s with 158gr RN lead bullets? After all, we wouldn’t want criminals to think they have a disadvantage?

Some of the surplus equipment is obviously not necessary for most local, county or state agencies. But some of it can be of use. Given this, shouldn’t it be up to the agency to decide and not the federal government what equipment they should or should not have? Really trust B HO and his merry band of incompetents to make the right call here?

Tp this, I would rather see local LEOs over-equipped than Obama’s brown shirt “civilian defense force” that he mentioned in 2007 with superior equipment.

I don't think the brown shirts of Obama will ever happen. Just won't.

Nobody is asking LEO to return to revo's.

The issue IMHO is that if LEO got away from the Military issue, and returned to police work instead of quasi military tactics to employ massive firepower and military tactics in situations they might get more respect from the community.

We will never get back to the beat cop with a night stick that whupped the kids in the neighborhood while their parents applauded them.

Its a different dynamic in the LEO world now. The criminals are well armed, the LEO has to continue to stay ahead of them. Its like an arms race between the US and Russia.

I'm on a cross roads on this deal.

 

[Shadowrider]

No body is talking about snow cats. People should be worried when they see American streets looking like Iraq. Heavy armored vehicles, drones, grenade launchers, etc have no place on our streets to be used against Americans. Like I said, just a step in the right direction.

Sounds like you don't know the specific reasoning behind the 2A and why our founders made it the 2nd Amendment and not the 6th or 10th. It wasn't hunting deer...

 

[farmerbyron]

I am far less concerned with the police having military equipment than I am about how it is used. If the possession of "military grade equipment" makes someone a tyrant then most of my friends must be murderers. It is the mindset and attitude of the person, not the inanimate object that needs to be addressed. And there is plenty of that to go around.

Glad I'm not the only on that thinks this way. I could care less if the police had an MP5 slung at a traffic stop. It's the conduct of the officer that determines the level of intimidation/oppression. But I am a bit numb to the sight of all kinds of weapons at this point.

 

[tRidiot]

I don't think the brown shirts of Obama will ever happen. Just won't.

Nobody is asking LEO to return to revo's.

The issue IMHO is that if LEO got away from the Military issue, and returned to police work instead of quasi military tactics to employ massive firepower and military tactics in situations they might get more respect from the community.

We will never get back to the beat cop with a night stick that whupped the kids in the neighborhood while their parents applauded them.

Its a different dynamic in the LEO world now. The criminals are well armed, the LEO has to continue to stay ahead of them. Its like an arms race between the US and Russia.

I'm on a cross roads on this deal.

Unfortunately, you're right... we'll never get back to those old days. A simple solo cop walking a beat these days and trying to "get to know" the population would be taken out in short order in a lot of the neighborhoods in the larger cities, and even some of our smaller ones. It would just be an initiation ritual, or some kids getting loaded and trying to be badasses or whatever - but the mortality rate would skyrocket in short order - that's my assessment, anyways.

Maybe I have a more cynical outlook than many due to my daily exposure to these thugs, POS's, dopers and ne'er-do-wells, but I am convinced without any shade of a doubt that intimidation and overwhelming show of force is the only thing that keeps some of these scumbags from acting out their aggressive fantasies.

I had one BIG ol' boy tell me and two officers the other night that when he was done with all his processing, he was coming looking for us. I just shook my head and thought to myself, "Son, that really IS the last thing you wanna do." I didn't say it out loud to keep from further "poking the bear", but it amazes me continually the kind of abuse our LEOs put up with. I get a fair amount of it, but those guys are constantly getting attitude and abuse. No way I'd wanna walk into their job with less than "overwhelming force". Personally.


<edit> And I gotta say, the last couple of weeks has been off the charts in terms of the drugs and violence. I dunno what the hell it is, moon phases, spring fever or whatever, but GOD**MNIT I am sick and f***ing tired of putting up with this s**t. And s**theads.

Ok, sorry.

[/rant]