Open carry?

[Lurkerinthewoods]

But ask yourself, baring some life changing event that leads to an enlightening that makes him a safer person in general, what's that magical number 21 really going to do to make him a more responsible person?

I don't mean to come off as snarky. I respect your opinion, but I just think it's a slippery slope. An 18 year old going off to war to defend his rights who is then denied certain rights when he comes back? It just sit right with me.

And that is the dilemma to living in a free society. There really isn't an answer. I just know from the personal experience with my two boys. With my oldest I noticed a change in his personality and the responsibility he was taking for his actions and life in general.

My next in line knows full well I could care less if he's 40, if I feel he isn't ready to own a firearm, one will not be coming from me.

I know I have been in Walmart buying ammo and had a very uneasy feeling about the characters buying ammo at the same time. Just a feeling..

As for your argument about returning Military members, I agree with you 100%. If a man or women has volunteered to serve in our Military and served with honor, I feel they should be given the respect as such. You will not hear an argument from me about this.

 

[Peacemaker]

As for your argument about returning Military members, I agree with you 100%. If a man or women has volunteered to serve in our Military and served with honor, I feel they should be given the respect as such. You will not hear an argument from me about this.

I feel very uneasy when we start giving certain citizens more rights than others. I get disgusted every time I hear the military exception thing. I do believe in paying honor and tribute to those who fight on our behalf but I'll be darned if I am willing to sit idly by and see my rights withheld because I did not enter the service. Just because you go into the service does not make you have better character or skills. My father trained me to use a firearm very well and we had a good friend's son who had just honorably gotten out of the service when a soldier from Fort Sill walked into a convenience store where he was working one night and shot him in the back with a shotgun and ended his life for a few dollars at a young age. Liberty nor maturity is not measured by military status. See my signature line for further explanation.

 

[tagillespie]

There has been much discussion about the open carry discharge petition and OK2A. I haven't been on OSA for a while due to time contraints, so I apoligize for this not being more timely to the flow of the discussion, but I would like to clear things up a bit.

In February, after the House leadership blocked a chage to their rules that would have helped get good 2A legislation through the chamber, we knew we needed to do something to force the issue. Three people currenlty have complete control over the fate of every bill: the chairman of the committee the bill is assigned to, the Floor Leader, and the Speaker. It is the same in the Senate. Until we break up this oligarchy, it is going to mean more frustration every year as we try again and again to pass good legislation. This was the first purpose of the discharge petition.

This petition was kicked off by a group of around 20 conservative grassroots organizations from around the state. We discussed several different bills, ranging from an ad valorem tax cut, to open carry. We decided to use HB1400, a "traditional" unlicensed open carry bill. However, the author of the bill asked that we not use his bill because he hoped to get Sue Tibbs to hear the bill in committee. Tibbs was never going to hear his bill, but we had to honor his wishes. The problem we faced was waiting for the committee deadline to pass would have meant we would possibly run out of time trying to get the signatures on the discharge petition so we chose another bill. It came down to HB1470 or HB1647. The author of HB1647 was already on board with the effort and, since 1470 was licensed, we chose 1647. From the beginning, the plan was to clean the language up once we got it moving through the process.

For example, Senator Russell had introduced SB856, an unlicensed open carry bill. Sen. Barrington refused to hear it, so Senator Russell amended it into a completely different bill. Then, on the floor, Senator Russell added his open carry language back into another bill, SB129. As bills move through the process, it is not difficult to clean them up, and sometimes even change them completely. We were never going to be satisfied with the language as it was, partly because of some of the conerns that have been voiced in this forum: the burden of proving reasonable fear of bodily harm.

Several Representatives were instrumental in helping. Rep. Bennett, as the author of the bill, worked hard to get the freshmen Republicans on board. Reps. Ritze, Terrill, Reynolds, Key, Derby, and others were helpful. Also, Reps. Inman and Procter were influental with the Democrat caucus. The organizations that carried the water were OK2A, the High Noon Club, John Birch Society, OCPAC, Reclaiming Oklahoma for Christ, OKC Tea Party, and a few others. Also, Kaye Beach was a big help.

As for OK2A, we would have loved to see Rep Tibbs hear HB1400 and Sen Barrington to hear SB856. That wasn't going to happen. We would have loved to use HB1400 for the petition - that was our initial plan - but that didn't work out. The best option was 1647. If SB129 doesn't come out of the House Public Safety Committee, we will work to clean up the language in HB1647 while it is in the Senate. We actually still have a strong chance to pass unlicensed open carry before the session is over in May. The next hurdle will be the Governor. She has said she would sign it, but she sure hasn't helped move it through the process, so I have my doubts.

Tim Gillespie
Director,
OK2A

 

[Lurkerinthewoods]

I feel very uneasy when we start giving certain citizens more rights than others. I get disgusted every time I hear the military exception thing. I do believe in paying honor and tribute to those who fight on our behalf but I'll be darned if I am willing to sit idly by and see my rights withheld because I did not enter the service. Just because you go into the service does not make you have better character or skills. My father trained me to use a firearm very well and we had a good friend's son who had just honorably gotten out of the service when a soldier from Fort Sill walked into a convenience store where he was working one night and shot him in the back with a shotgun and ended his life for a few dollars at a young age. Liberty nor maturity is not measured by military status. See my signature line for further explanation.

I guess you need to work on some legislation allowing you to purchase beer at 18, because that is really the only thing we are talking about. And you answered the other part of the dilemma with the highlighted words in your quote.

 

[Peacemaker]

There has been much discussion about the open carry discharge petition and OK2A. I haven't been on OSA for a while due to time contraints, so I apoligize for this not being more timely to the flow of the discussion, but I would like to clear things up a bit.

.................

As for OK2A, we would have loved to see Rep Tibbs hear HB1400 and Sen Barrington to hear SB856. That wasn't going to happen. We would have loved to use HB1400 for the petition - that was our initial plan - but that didn't work out. The best option was 1647. If SB129 doesn't come out of the House Public Safety Committee, we will work to clean up the language in HB1647 while it is in the Senate. We actually still have a strong chance to pass unlicensed open carry before the session is over in May. The next hurdle will be the Governor. She has said she would sign it, but she sure hasn't helped move it through the process, so I have my doubts.

Tim Gillespie
Director,
OK2A

Tim,

I respect all the hard work you are doing but at this point, I would even be satisfied with a licensed open carry with the intent to get our due liberty through an incremental process. While I agree, we should not need a license to carry a firearm, I also understand that the legislature and the majority of the people are morons and will need to see that we are able to "behave ourselves" before any sweeping legislation is passed. What I really mean by that is that most people are weak minded and will need to digest the thought of seeing someone without a badge or uniform carrying a gun in public and the only way we might be able to get it immediately is to alter the current concealed carry law to include open carry. Now, I know that fell flat on its face with HB1796 but If that one didn't make it, I can't see the House passing unlicensed open carry either.

Right now, I am just frustrated with our lawmakers seeing how we sent them a message last fall and they are no better than the last flock.

 

[tagillespie]

The main reason 1796 didn't go through was because of the referendum. I understand what you mean, though. I would also rather have a licensed bill than no bill, but I believe we will still get an unlicensed bill through this year. Or at least, we have a very good shot at it.

 

[Werewolf]

And that is the dilemma to living in a free society.

Dilema?

More freedom = less safe
More safe = less freedom

It's a sliding scale. The only dilema is where on the scale we put the marker.

Personally - accepting risk and having freedom is IMO preferable to the alternative. Unfortunately as our country matures it seems more and more not only accept but prefer the alternative. Whether by design or accident that is a situation that will eventually become unbearable to those who prefer more freedom.

 

[Mirge]

Tim,

I respect all the hard work you are doing but at this point, I would even be satisfied with a licensed open carry with the intent to get our due liberty through an incremental process. While I agree, we should not need a license to carry a firearm, I also understand that the legislature and the majority of the people are morons and will need to see that we are able to "behave ourselves" before any sweeping legislation is passed. What I really mean by that is that most people are weak minded and will need to digest the thought of seeing someone without a badge or uniform carrying a gun in public and the only way we might be able to get it immediately is to alter the current concealed carry law to include open carry. Now, I know that fell flat on its face with HB1796 but If that one didn't make it, I can't see the House passing unlicensed open carry either.

Right now, I am just frustrated with our lawmakers seeing how we sent them a message last fall and they are no better than the last flock.

You literally just summed up everything I've been thinking heh. I'd be happy with concealed carry w/ open option right now.

 

[Peacemaker]

The main reason 1796 didn't go through was because of the referendum. I understand what you mean, though. I would also rather have a licensed bill than no bill, but I believe we will still get an unlicensed bill through this year. Or at least, we have a very good shot at it.

HB1796 had amendments to delete the referendum and bypass Tibb's games. I didn't support it in its original form but with the amendments that were proposed, I think it would have been a serviceable law.

 

[tagillespie]

HB1796 had amendments to delete the referendum and bypass Tibb's games. I didn't support it in its original form but with the amendments that were proposed, I think it would have been a serviceable law.

There was a lot of push back because of the referendum, which is evidenced by all the amendments. The leadership talked some of the authors of the amendments into pulling them. But, because there were still amendments filed Tibbs told leadership she didn't want the bill heard. Which, reveals a lot about her. Her intention was never to see open carry passed into law - by the legislature or the people. But the issue came down to the refurendum.