Pawnee Winter Run 'n Gun - Jan. 18, 2014 - Pawnee, OK - Sign up now!

[jrgutier]

Great event! I did a lot better than I ever thought I would for my first time in any shooting competition. The extra two miles I ran because I got lost in the beginning gassed me though. A couple of suggestions for next time:

1) Use Runkeeper on your day-before RO test runs. Print out the path with satellite and include it in your instructions sheet that you give to all competitors.

2) Set it up like a golf match so we can have two heats going at the same time. So for this run, we could've had half of the people do the Stage 1-3 leg while the other half did the Stage 4-6 leg (then complete 1-3 after 6). This only works if the beginning and end of both legs are the same point, i.e. figure-8 course.

Again, this was awesome. I'm so sore, but it was totally worth it. Can't wait until July.

 

[uncle money bags]

Navigation through obstacles requiring the runner to keep their head up and in the game is an important aspect of the competition. The paths are intentionally challenging to test your observation skills. I think a map in this instance would be of little value, however clearly marking the incorrect path when they may allow the competitor to stray into an impact area would be very important. we had two such occurrences on stage three.

I dont understand what your second point is. could you expand on it?

 

[SMS]

UMB, I think he's talking about golf-like shotgun start. Get more folks out on the course quicker...might make sense if you have more than 40ish shooters. I think y'all got everyone out well before noon so it wasn't bad at all.

 

[uncle money bags]

hmm. i think i see it now, thanks. That seems more complicated than it needs to be to me. I admit Im not operating a 100% right now, so the obviousness of it may be going right over my head though.

 

[TedKennedy]

Thank You to all the folks that came out, workers and runners alike! This was a lot of fun, I hope everyone had a good time! It would not be possible to run a safe event like this without all the first- class volunteers we had.

 

[uncle money bags]

Here is part one of my AAR covering the RO run on Friday. I will follow up later with a separate AAR for the Saturday event.

Pawnee Winter Run N Gun AAR 17-18 JAN 2014

The Pawnee Winter run and gun was a six station, 6.5 mile biathlon requiring the effective employment of the individuals primary weapon system and their back up side arm including transitions between the weapons while under mental and physical stresses designed to force the competitor to act under less than optimal conditions. While conceived as a winter version of the summer run n gun held previously at Thunderbird range the previous July, the conditions were typically Oklahoman. you never know if the middle of January will be bitter cold or relatively balmy. As it was, it was a beautiful mid 50's with plenty of sunshine and no precipitation on either day. The wind played some factor on both Friday and Saturday, but was gusting more on Saturday to around 20-25 mph. As a whole, I think the event was successful with regards to the conceptual intent.

I am going to write this AAR in two phases as I had the privilege to serve as an RO during Saturdays run, and actually attempted the course on Friday with the rest of the ROs. This is the aar for the RO run.
Friday 17 JAN

After spending the morning finishing the course setup and path flagging we were assigned to our stages and the faster RO's were sent out to complete the course and then relieve the waiting ROs so they could run. I was paired up at stage 3 with a guy named Butch from Arizona who was here visiting friends while on vacation and decided to volunteer to help. After the stages were manned, runners went out on a schedule, of sorts.

Stage 3 consisted of a man sized torso steel silhouette target set 500 yards from the shooting station across a valley and in line with an underground pipe right of way. The standard to pass the stage was 3 hits from any position within 4 minutes. After the RO explained the course of fire the competitor was informed that time would start after they indicated they were ready, magazine stowed, and the fire command was given. The target was equipped with a seismic sensor and strobe that would flash upon impact. This system worked well for impacts, however there were a few phantom flashes which occured about a half of a second after an impact. fortunately these flashes happened while no shot was being attempted or it would have been much more difficult to judge if there was indeed an impact. Had a shooter fired again immediately after a known impact and the strobe had malfunctioned with the a fore mentioned phantom I would have had to judge it a hit. Even if I had seen an impact away from the target there was no way I could tell if that impact was a ricochet after hitting the steel. We were given a spotting scope to help see impacts and judge where the rounds were splashing and that helped immensely in determining the trajectory of out going rounds. I was able to see the trail trail of rounds and offer impact information to the shooter in most cases. The only ones I could not determine were rounds far left of the target as the trees obscured the vortex. Even having this information, the stage was difficult as it was best served by a rig with magnification and a decent reticule. Of course this wasn't required, some of the best times were made with iron sighted rifles. In the end it was more a test of the shooters ability and their familiarity with the rifle at distance than his equipment. If I remember correctly only about 1/3 or less were able to successfully negotiate the stage.

As 1500 rolled around I became concerned that I would run out of daylight to complete the course. I was basing this on my abysmal time at the summer event and the fact that this course was over twice the length. Considering the last RO to run the stage had come through quite a while earlier and not hearing fire at the first two stages i decided to not wait any longer for a replacement to reach me and accepted a ride back to the start area from John, our magnificent host. I left Butch at the stage with another RO who had come by to check on things and kitted up for the run.
My equipment list was the same as I had written about previously in this thread with four differences. I decided to fore-go the suppressor on the CQBR this time as I just didn't want to lug around another pound and a half of steel, and having determined that the suppressor did not contribute much toward accuracy from my range tests. the second difference was I had switched to medium ESAPI plates from the large, a savings of about 2.5 pounds and better mobility. The third was a result of my own mistake. I left my 77 gr SMK hand loads at home. Total fail on my part. Fortunately I had my 75 gr defensive loads with me and after consulting photos of my zero targets for both rounds I was able to correct the dope on my Aimpoint m4. The only unknown would be the trajectory at distance, which ended up being close enough to the SMK load and was not a problem. The last difference was the ear pro. TCI Liberator II's replaced the surefire EP3s i had planned on using.

Final Equipment Inventory.
Daniel Defense MK18/CQBR 10.3" barrel, Giessele SSA, Aimpoint M4, VCAS sling, 90 rounds (75 gr Privi hand loads with 23 gr of TAC and Wolf SRM primers at 2.25 OAL) 4 pmags
2nd gen Glock 17, DeFoor iron sights, 51 rds 124 gr FMJ. 3 magazines.
TCI LIberator II ear pro.
SKD PIG plate carrier, medium ESAPI plates, Source hydration bladder, three Eagle double mag pouches, HSGI TACO mag pouch, Eagle multipurpose pouch, HSGI bleeder kit, TQ
HSGI Suregrip belt, Safariland 6004, 2 modified Eagle pistol mag pouches, Full size IFAK, another TQ
ACS shirt, three color desert bdu pants, Lowa Zephyr boots with smartwool socks.

 

[uncle money bags]

I had decided to run the event unmagnified after spending some time shooting similar sized targets at similar distances and being satisfied that i would be able to make hits. in retrospect, a variable magnification would have been better, either with a flip to the side magnifier or replacing my long gone and loved ELCAN Specter.
I started the run with 90 rounds of rifle ammo and 51 rounds of pistol. Total weight of equipment and runner was between 250 and 260 pounds.
I particularly appreciated the the road portion of the course. It gave me time to get warmed up without being too difficult to navigate. By the time I reached the first stage everything was loose, warm and ready to go

Stage 1 was engaging a steel 8 inch torso at 100 yards through a VTAC wall. We used 7 of the available firing ports which forced you into unusual firing positions. knowing your trajectories is a must at this stage. I don't remember my round count but my time was 59 seconds. Slower than I am used to because of several frustrating misses. By now I was developing a hot spot on the back and side of my left heel. I had foregone getting new insoles and now I was going to pay for it. Between 1 and 2 I did get temporarily lost and had to back track and look for the flag, Al pointed it out to me on the gate as he sailed right on by.

Stage 2 involved a shoot on the move pistol engagement into a close distance over sized torso then from behind a tree to a steel plate at about 7 yards from both the right and left side. My instruction at this stage from the RO did not include switching the firing hand between the left and right side of the tree so I shot with my strong side only. After the requisite three hits from each side we picked up our grounded rifle, loaded a magazine and engaged 5 steel plates at various distances through the trees, needing 2 hits per plate. While you were limited to a specific area to shoot from, you had to move a few feet to each side to see the plates and engage. Another RO error at this stage was my not being told a a mag change with the rifle was mandatory, as such I did not perform one. My time was 1 minute flat. Considering my not switching firing hand with the pistol and mag change with the rifle I request a zero for this stage.

Stage three was my baby. But first, I would like to thank the planners of the paths between the stages. Up to this point it had been easier than I had anticipated. Thankfully, they found a nice, rocky creek bed and embankment for us to negotiate. I got to stage three, took a minute breather and got into position. Unfortunately, Butch is half blind by his own admission, so I was not going to be able to receive any correction or splash information. All we would have to go on is the strobe. I decided that i would start firing where i thought my rounds should go and make small corrections until I got a flash and then unload what ever I could at that spot until I had my hits. I don't remember how many times it took to get the first flash, but I know it took almost 40 rounds to get the third hit, right at the 4 minute hack.
get up and move out down the road the way we came to the first three stages until you reached the sign indicating stage 4. by now the sun was just above the horizon and on its way down.

Stage 4 involved being handed a clip with 5 rounds of 7.62x54 ammo for the Mosin positioned at the far end of a barbed wire pit about 5 yards away. The goal was to negotiate the pit, load the rifle and engage a steel target 200 yards away. I had never shot a Mosin to this point, much less loaded one with a stripper clip. I got a quick instructional the day before from Nate, sans gun or ammo, so i figured it wasn't that big of a deal. At the start command I dropped my rifle and crawled up to the Mosin, loaded it clumsily and put a round into the chamber. As i took aim at the target I realized that it was much harder to see than I thought it would be and I had to drop the front sight away and reacquire the target, then move back into getting a sight picture twice before I was somewhat satisfied. In truth, it was just a best guess. I could just barely make out the target when I squeezed off the shot. Hit. I guess in my zeal I forgot that I only need that one hit, so I worked the bolt and prepared for another shot. The RO was quick to step in and stop me. I think my time was either 28 or 48 seconds, I dont remember for certain, most of it spent loading and sighting in.

Stage 5. This was the most confusing stage of the course. In my opinion it was in the sequence of stages at exactly the right place. The shooter was going to be tired mentally and physicaly at this point so it would be easy to make mistakes even though the distances were no farther than 50 yards or so. It was going to require shooting from the high ground with limited rifle ammo, transitioning to a pistol and shooting a different target, then holstering and moving down the bank to engage three other pistol targets. If you missed any shots at the rifle portion you were required to get the balance of those 3 hits with the pistol on the rifle plate. On the fire command I loaded the rifle and dropped into the barrel. And got 2 hits. I then grounded the rifle and stood to engage the first pistol target. More frustration as I had to go high ready and then reacquire a sight picture twice before I was successful and could holster the gun, slide, jump and shuffle down the embankment to the next port. Several rounds later it was time to make up the missed rifle shot. Immediately I brought the pistol in to a sul position and moved out across the muddy remnants of the pond to get closer to the rifle plate. I retrospect I should have stayed where I was, I had plenty of pistol ammo left and the distance was not too far. I finished off the stage and was rewarded with the second most frustrating time of the day. 2:08.

Stage 6. By this time the sun was below the horizon and I knew the next stage was likely to be impossible for me. Never the less, I grabbed my ammo can and hoofed it up the burial mound to the firing platform. The targets were 12 inch silhouettes at about 100, 200 and 300 yards. You were required to get three hits each to complete the stage. It was now I realized this was not going to happen. Even though I had helped Al set the plates up earlier in the day the only one I could absolutely see was the 100 yard plate. I could make out where the 300 plate was, but through the Aimpoint it washed away with the surroundings, and the 200 was completely hidden by the lack of light. In my opinion the 100 yard target was safe to shoot and 300 yard target was marginal while the 200 target was a no shoot since I could not see it. The RO gave me the go ahead to fire so I loaded and dropped to the deck and shot the 100 and got my three hits. I then moved to the 300 target and switched back and forth between naked eye and through the RDS and attempted to engage. It was a no go. I finished off my remaining rounds trying to get hits on that 300 without success. At the completion of the time allotted the RO offered to give me a ride back to base and I declined, and requested the direction I needed to go to finish the run. I arrived back at the start line in 2 hours and 26 minutes at 1811. I had a wait time at stage 2 of 7 minutes which gave me a net of 2:19 for the course. In comparison, my time at the summer run n gun was within 10 minutes of this one, and the course here was over twice the length, albeit less brutal.

After action comments.

Sustain.
-Physical training, and add rucking with weight over varying elevations.
-shooting under pressure, while in diminished physical and mental states, with the gear you plan to fight in.

Improve.
-Low light target aquisition and engagement for pistol and rifle, including employing low to no light devices such as a PVS-14, either rifle mounted with the Aimpoint, or head mounted in conjunction with an ir laser.
-Blister prevention, replace the insoles of your boots before they need them.
-evaluate and decide on a rifle mounted magnification system for PID in good light situations.

 

[english kanigit]

I was the other bolt action guy running with my teenage nephew

I think you should change your name to 'bloodyhand'.

I dare say that you ran that big stick well and I wish I could've watched you negotiate the VTAC wall.



Ek

 

[shakyhand]

Thank you
I ripped / gouged about a thin 1/2 by 1/8 inch piece of skin off my pinky thank goodness there was a medic behind me with tape. That finger bled from stage 2 till stage 4 it just did not want to clot.
On the vtac wall I went one for one at each port time was 1:04. I only shot forty rifle rds for the match I only took fifty total. The 500 yd stage was 47 seconds with 5 or 6 shots took me a second to account for wind.
I zeroed on the mosin Stage
This is fun stuff it brings the kid out in me for sure. I am glad I brought the bolt gun it weighed 14.5 lbs but with the low rd counts I felt I could compete with the AR's. Several of you guys have rifles every bit as heavy so congrats for bringing those 308's
My nephew said he likes this better than USPSA

 

[osupoke]

Shakyhand, I guess I didn't see you in all the coming and going; I don't remember seeing anyone with a 14.5 lb. bolt gun. That makes me extremely curious because I briefly entertained the idea of running a pretty heavy bolt gun. Mine would be tough because it doesn't have detachable magazines. What exactly was your rifle setup?