Places that are off limits for CCW?

[IDtheTarget]

Unfortunately, we may not get an AG answer any time soon. I went over to his website to see what the process was, and found his FAQ page. The very first FAQ was:

Question:
Who can ask the Attorney General for an official opinion?
Answer:

74 O.S. § 18b (A(5)) provides the following language: The duties of the Attorney General as the chief law officer of the state shall be... To give an opinion in writing upon all questions of law submitted to the Attorney General by the Legislature or either branch thereof, or by any state officer, board, commission or department, provided, that the Attorney General shall not furnish opinions to any but district attorneys, the Legislature or either branch thereof, or any other state official, board, commission or department, and to them only upon matters in which they are officially interested.

I doubt the agency for which I work will be asking about this specific question. I suppose we here on OSA will have to go through a DA.

 

[LoveMyJeep]

The LE could, at that point, cite not only for simple trespass, but also for disobeying a lawful order of a police officer, in addition to whatever other statute-breaking items the officer may find, if he chooses to continue investigation.

The statute regarding the disobeying of a lawful order falls under Title 47 and is only in reference to an officer directing traffic. You could not be cited under this statute and under these give circumstances.


Section 11-103 - Obedience To Police Officers

No person shall willfully fail or refuse to comply with any lawful order or direction of any police officer invested by law with authority to direct, control or regulate traffic.

 

[Buzzdraw]

The point trying to be made was that a LE may be inclined to find additional charges, beyond trespassing, when pushed to annoyance.

Gentlemen and ladies, I don't think we're going to be able to get a definative answer on this without case law or an AG opinion. I'm also of the opinion that we should let the sleeping dog lie, since we might not like a more restrictive answer if we push the issue with the AG.

 

[IDtheTarget]

Good points. The only reason I'm pushing the issue is because there are so many people on the board saying "it's only tresspass, so I'm going to ignore the sign". I am very concerned that this reasoning could cost somebody a lot of trouble.

I'm not worried about myself, I stay away from places that are posted and if I accidentally end up in the wrong place I feel fairly certain that showing my ID and explaining the situation will keep me out of trouble.

I'd just hate to see a new SDA holder come to the board, hear the opinion of the "tresspass" crowd and learn otherwise the hard way.

 

[skyydiver]

It's still not laid out in the business owners rights section that one is carrying "outside the SDA" if an owner prohibits carry, so the question is still wide open.

I do agree that it could go either way in the hands of lawyers, a jury, or a panel of judges (really long lasting lawyers) and I definitely agree I don't want to be the test case. What I don't agree about is how cut and dry you try to make it appear, ID. I think it's vague as hell like most statute. How else do the scheisters get paid?

Edited to add: When I type about lawyers, I look like a **** because I don't like them (as a rule, not 100% of them), so don't let that make you think I'm directing that at you ID. You are providing very good points and I can see both sides of this, as I think we all can. I just like to be optimistic.

 

[IDtheTarget]

Well, I'm not a lawyer either, so you won't hurt my feelings any.

I honestly don't understand why this isn't clear to everybody else. Maybe I have a screw loose. It seems pretty simple to me, but then I'm used to looking at Access Control Lists for firewalls and routers:

Rule 1) Carry on Oklahoma State property is prohibited.
Rule 2) Property owners may control the possession of weapons on their property
Rule 3) If Property Owner prohibits possession of a firearm on their property, it is prohibited.
Rule 4) Carry of a concealed firearm is authorized by duly licensed civilians, except in prohibited areas.

Oh, well. Life would be boring if everybody agreed with each other.

 

[skyydiver]

Rule 3 is the one you keep assuming is there. It's not, it just says they can prohibit it. So that leads to : Hey you, with the gun, leave. It's not a stretch from there to trespass. Like i said, it's all in the interpretation, but nothing in the property owners' rights makes it expressly illegal to carry there, just let's them prohibit guns there. The ILLEGAL places are all laid out in SDA. It never says posted places are included. Rule 3 above is an easy assumption to make too, but it's no more laid out in statute than the trespass theory. Routers and firewalls are WAY too logical to apply to law.

 

[penman53]

FYI:

I just sent in my paperwork for my concealed carry license on thursday. The deputy sheriff I spoke with that finger printed me and I talked for a long time. I asked him specifically, what would be re ramifications of carrying a concealed weapon into a business that has it posted "no firearms" especially since we are of course carrying a concealed weapon, how would they know it anyway? He said that as long as I was not trying to go into a school, federal building etc. that little or nothing would be done for carrying into that business. He also said the same think you said that these people that are carrying concealed weapons are cleared to do so through a comphrehensive background check with the county, state and federal government. He said just to keep quite and don't worry about it.

 

[Crosstimbers Okie]

Oklahoma County deputy?

 

[trade_sniper]

Ok, I have a new place to consider. I have to go to a building that is part of the Tulsa International Airport complex. Now, its not in the terminal area, its a hangar owned by a business, somewhere on the property, probably way out back. Would that place be considered off-limits, maybe because of its proximity to TIA? Some other reason?