Please read if you buy or sell firearms on OKshooters

[reddog1]

Ok, now I am taking a 10-200.

 

[winterparker2b]

Ok, I think selling has been covered. What about buying, is there a way for a civilian to check serial numbers to see if a firearm has been stolen? I posed this question to Edmond PD a few years ago and they acted suspicious of my intentions. Not sure why

 

[shooterdave]

You know, The Author of this thread was just trying to offer some advice and possibly some insight for some who might not know about OSCN and ODCR. Cut him some slack. He wasn't trying to tell everyone how they were wrong or that they were all in trouble if they didn't do thing his way. Sometimes I wonder about some of you...

 

[henschman]

What made me chime in was language like this in the OP:

Any ways guys stay safe, because if you sell to a felon you might become one.

This could make some folks who don't know the law believe that they have an affirmative duty to investigate whether a person is in fact a felon before they sell, and that if they don't, and the buyer turns out to be a felon, the seller could be committing a felony -- which is not true.

If the OP had said "if you KNOWINGLY sell to a felon you might become one," that would be an accurate statement of the law and I would have no issues with it. I think everyone ought to know about OSCN and ODCR and I am glad the OP informed everyone about them. I certainly have no issues with people VOLUNTARILY CHOOSING to investigate someone's criminal record before selling to them -- I just don't want there to be any misapprehension about anyone's legal duties (or the lack thereof) to do so.

 

[ripnbst]

I have a pseudo on topic question.

In OK you can sell long guns by trading cash for gun and walking away.

Can you do the same for handgun, or do you have to do an FFL transfer?

 

[dru]

I have a pseudo on topic question.

In OK you can sell long guns by trading cash for gun and walking away.

Can you do the same for handgun, or do you have to do an FFL transfer?

You are good to do FTF handgun sales/trades in oklahoma as well, sans FFL. Just remember, no felon business yada yada yada

 

[henschman]

And a private seller can legally sell a handgun to 18 year olds on up, whereas an FFL can only sell them to 21 and up. Selling to an underage person has to be a "knowing" violation too, just like selling to a felon.

It is a little different though, since it is easier to tell someone's age just by looking at them than it is to tell whether they are a felon. Some people obviously look under 18 years old, which could give rise to a duty to actually confirm their age before selling to them. Like I said, a "knowing" state of mind means that you are practically certain that something is true.

 

[jmoney]

By your own admission, your links only reflect Oklahoma records. We have no way of checking court records instantly for all venues, which I believe is what Glocktogo is addressing.

The larger question is: What constitutes Due Diligence on the part of the seller? How far need they go to ensure they are selling to a party who is able to legally obtain a firearm?

"Due Diligence" like many legal terms is only defined as far as the case law supports it. However, if you are going to sell a firearm to a convicted felon, who then goes out at causes serious bodily harm or death to another, you may or may not depending on OK and possibly federal be in criminal trouble. CIVIL wise, don't be surprised if you get slapped with a pretty nasty lawsuit.

 

[jmoney]

You left out the operative adverb, knowingly. For the record here is the statute:

§21-1289.12. Giving firearms to convicted persons.

GIVING FIREARMS TO CONVICTED PERSONS

It shall be unlawful for any person within this state to knowingly sell, trade, give, transmit or otherwise cause the transfer of rifles, shotguns or pistols to any convicted felon or an adjudicated delinquent, and it shall be unlawful for any person within this state to knowingly sell, trade, give, transmit or otherwise cause the transfer of any shotgun, rifle or pistol to any individual who is under the influence of alcohol or drugs or is mentally or emotionally unbalanced or disturbed. All persons who engage in selling, trading or otherwise transferring firearms will display this section prominently in full view at or near the point of normal firearms sale, trade or transfer. Any person convicted of violating the provisions of this section shall be punished as provided in Section 1289.15 of this title.

And while I was looking up the statute, here is the penalty for knowingly selling a firearm to a felon. I found no penalty for unknowingly selling a firearm to a felon.

§21-1289.15. Penalty for Firearms Act of 1971.

PENALTY FOR FIREARMS ACT OF 1971

Any person adjudged guilty of violating any provision of Section 1289.9, 1289.10, 1289.11, 1289.12 or 1289.13 of this title shall, upon conviction, be punished by a fine of not less than Fifty Dollars ($50.00) nor more than Five Hundred Dollars ($500.00), or imprisonment in the county jail for not less than ten (10) days nor more than six (6) months, or by both such fine and imprisonment.
[1] Added by Laws 1971, c. 159, § 15, emerg. eff. May 24, 1971. Amended by Laws 1995, c. 272, § 52, eff. Sept. 1, 1995.

knowingly is where the argument is. I typically don't sell firearms to people without a CHL, and even at face to face encounters I still have a drafted agreement that requires you to transfer the firearm within 60 days of purchase, or else the sale is not conclude and I have the right to take the firearm back as long as I return the money.

Just did a deal with a OKShooters member the other day, he knows what I'm taking about!

 

[henschman]

There is no duty of due diligence when selling a gun in Oklahoma. You just cannot knowingly sell to a felon, underage, etc... if you have no reason to believe that they are a prohibited person, you do not have any kind of duty to check. You don't even have to ask whether they are or aren't.