This^^^^^^^^^^. Remember shot placement is King, penetration is Queen, expansion is Angels dancing on the head of a pin. Great if you get it, refer to King and Queen if you don't.
This^^^^^^^^^^. Remember shot placement is King, penetration is Queen, expansion is Angels dancing on the head of a pin. Great if you get it, refer to King and Queen if you don't.
Thats incorrect I still get my range time so whats wrong with testing your own rounds. Why WOULDNT you want to see what YOUR SD rnd can really do.
And what is a premium rnd??? The round that is marketed as "premium" and the sheeple agree??? WHAT HAPPENED TO GOOD OLE AMERICA WHEN PEOPLE WANTED TO SEE RESULTS FOR THEMSELVES??? The last couple posted are just following the masses.
I suggest a method to see some hands on results and the last few post are so complacent. Shot placement is important but getting your hands on the best round you could find wouldnt hurt either. But I found a hand full of guys interested already so more fun and experimentation for us.
(Im not trying to offend anyone but I was raised to be hands on and proactive and im just a bit fired up... its to early to be fired up back to sleep for me)
Maybe it would be a little better for you to listen and learn instead of getting all fired up about nothing. Point is that if something expands in a phone book then it means nothing relative to performance in the human body. If you'd been around longer than 5 mins to shooting you'd realize this. Now I do get the fun part, more power to you. I just hope you realize that you're not going to find anything breakthrough and meaningful if it's TRUE real world results you seek.
Now Olyeller had a point. Find a premium load and practice since YOU'VE YET TO SHOOT ONE?? Dunno what "premium" is? It means a design that has been proven with results in denim covered gel, various barriers, coupled with some street results. To newbies like yourself, that would mean a load with a Golddot, HST, Goldensaber, Ranger etc. Pick your poison and practice because only internet heros or couch commandos worry about the difference.
The problem with testing like this is that no matter what it does to a phone book or jug of water (or ballistic gel, etc.), it will never consistently do that to a human being - different factors will cause it to do different things every time (shot distance, angle, body-type, clothing, hitting a bone, etc.).
Remember, there is no magic caliber just like there is no magic round (in that caliber). The best practice is to shoot the bad guy until he falls from your sight picture. If the judge asks you why you shot that guy 5 times, you say "because 4 wouldn't have been enough and 6 would have been too many".
Premium round means one that has been proven in battle/duty use (as in departments have used them successfully in almost every scenario that you would ever dream of in a real-life "have to shoot a bad-guy" scenario). There are plenty of premium rounds out there that do more than a good enough job to stop a bad-guy and these premium rounds have been doing that for years. Speer Gold-Dots are some of the most popular. Federal Hydra-Shoks are good too. As are Winchester Rangers (though they're an older design, they're still good).
Those aren't sheeple, they're the sheep-dogs. And if it works for them, then its good enough for any gunfight I'll ever be in with a handgun.
BTW, you will want to test more than 2-3 rounds - I'd go with more like 50-100rds of self-defense ammo at a minimum (preferably around 200) because more importantly than what that ammo will do to a wet phonebook is how your gun will handle the rounds. I usually test between 100-200rds of my SD ammo in my carry guns at paper targets (also, if you're practicing with standard velocity and using +P or +P+ for self-defense, then you'll be testing yourself and how you handle the extra recoil).
If your gun won't cycle/fire/eject correctly, then who cares how bad-ass the round is. If your gun goes "click" its really hard to explain that to an armed bad-guy.
And don't say "I got a (insert name of fanboy brand here such as Glock, CZ, M&P, etc.) so I don't need to test it out". I'd test out any gun I planned on carrying with at least 500rds before trusting my life with it - at least 100rds of that should be in what you plan on shooting in a SD situation.
That thing cracks me up every time I see it.
There was nothing else to say at this point, lol!
Regardless of how new i am to guns im not just going to "pick a brand". They may be how most of you guys do things thats fine. Id like to actually put a couple rounds of different SD ammunitions through my gun and pick the one that performs the best through my weapon.
And maybe 2-3 rnds is far conservative but you guy's "pick a round" attitude is not something I will adopt in my lifetime. I will never just "pick this or that" when it comes to my life and family.
This thread is too negative so im done with it mods lock it up please.
And maybe 2-3 rnds is far conservative but you guy's "pick a round" attitude is not something I will adopt in my lifetime. I will never just "pick this or that" when it comes to my life and family.
This thread is too negative so im done with it mods lock it up please.
Nobody is being negative. I think most of us have wondered about hollow point performance at one time or another. Most of us have probably tried many different types of HPs at one time or another.
Basically, it boils down to there are more important things to worry about than what the hollow point looks after its entered/passed through your testing media. Olyeller gave you some great advice.
If you want to play with several brands of HPs, go for it nobody is stopping you. We just know that you could save yourself some time and money by focusing on more important issues.
I recommend checking out Dr. Gary Roberts' terminal ballistics threads over at m4carbine. http://www.m4carbine.net/forumdisplay.php?f=91 Its just more information to ponder but he'll tell you the same thing olyeller did.
Good luck!
Basically, it boils down to there are more important things to worry about than what the hollow point looks after its entered/passed through your testing media. Olyeller gave you some great advice.
If you want to play with several brands of HPs, go for it nobody is stopping you. We just know that you could save yourself some time and money by focusing on more important issues.
I recommend checking out Dr. Gary Roberts' terminal ballistics threads over at m4carbine. http://www.m4carbine.net/forumdisplay.php?f=91 Its just more information to ponder but he'll tell you the same thing olyeller did.
Good luck!
