SBR vs Pistol w/forearm brace

[Tanis143]

This is to discuss the use of a forearm brace (or just a padded buffer tube) to make an AR into a pistol platform vs an SBR. dennis brought this up and I feel it bears discussion. Here is my opinions.

Pistol braces, for them or against them? Personally, I'm for them. The NFA decided for us that rifles and shotguns with barrels under 16" should be regulated as they are more dangerous than a regular rifle or shotgun because they can be concealed easier. We all know the NFA is a huge infringement on our 2A rights. So what do people do with a law that they feel is unfair? They find the loopholes. Enter in the AR/AK pistols. According to law a pistol is a firearm with a short barrel and no shoulder stock. So someone figured that if you removed the shoulder stock of an AR15 and put on a short barrel, you now, legally, have a pistol. For a while all you had was a padded buffer tube. Then someone figured out that you could use a forearm brace. And while technically you can shoulder a brace like a stock, that is not its "intended" purpose, therefor does not count as a stock.

Is this bad for the gun community or just a way to thumb our nose at the NFA and its extortion scam? I feel its the latter. Now do I feel people should carry these open carry like a pistol? No. But they are great for concealing in a backpack or a vehicle as they are compact (especially with a folding brace). Right now to carry 30 rounds I would have to carry 2 extra mags for my pistol. With a AR pistol? One mag will do. Not to mention that even with a shorter barrel the AR would be more accurate over a greater distance than a pistol.

Just my two cents.

 

[GlockPride]

I’m all for them, or any weapon anyone wants to own. It ain’t the equipment, it’s the man. I agree with the accuracy at distance, more energy delivered and possibly faster shots. Definitely, a greater chance of survival against a group.

And IMHO, one AR mag may not be enough. Remember, if something can wrong, it might. And mags are one of the failure points, so to carry only one might be to invite Murphy. So, if you carry more than one, Murphy might not accept the invite.

To me, the NFA ought to be dissolved.

 

[CharlieWH2O]

I’m all for them, or any weapon anyone wants to own. It ain’t the equipment, it’s the man. I agree with the accuracy at distance, more energy delivered and possibly faster shots. Definitely, a greater chance of survival against a group.

And IMHO, one AR mag may not be enough. Remember, if something can wrong, it might. And mags are one of the failure points, so to carry only one might be to invite Murphy. So, if you carry more than one, Murphy might not accept the invite.

To me, the NFA ought to be dissolved.

As for magazines, "Two is one and one is none".

 

[Yeti695]

Ok, to me this was a way to say hey we can so what we want and you can’t say anything. This is also why for a long while you couldn’t shoulder a brace, than you could, and not….back and forth for a few months. I personally understand why you would want to carry a mid-sized rifle caliber around if I lived somewhere where there was a high threat of mass shooting or a horde of zombies coming around the corner. I don’t live in places like that and I don’t go to those places to often. I understand that mass shootings can happen anywhere at any time, but I also try not to put myself in that situation where something like that might happen. I personally don’t understand why you want to push the issues of the law. When you start to get in that grey area it can usually end up bad for someone, either in jail or spending a lot of money to stay out of jail. I would never carry a rifle caliber pistol anywhere other than my property and then I would still rather have the rifle. So if you choose to carry an AR/AK pistol more power to you, but if I was a criminal wanting to do bad things, you would be my first target. .

21 O.S 1290.6. Prohibited Ammunition Any concealed or unconcealed handgun when carried in a manner authorized by the provisions of the Oklahoma Self-Defense Act and when loaded with any ammunition which is either a restricted bullet as defined by Section 1289.19 of this title or is larger than .45 caliber or is otherwise prohibited by law shall be deemed a prohibited weapon for purposes of the Oklahoma Self-Defense Act. Any person violating the provisions of this section shall be punished for a criminal offense as provided by Section 1272 of this title or any other applicable provision of law. In addition to any criminal prosecution for a violation of the provisions of this section, the licensee shall be subject to an administrative fine of Five Hundred Dollars ($500.00), upon a hearing and determination by the Oklahoma State Bureau of Investigation that the person is in violation of the provisions of this section.

So I don’t see a need for it, but to each there own.

 

[adamsredlines]

To be a stickler...the length requirements are different for shotguns and rifles, FYI

Rifle is 16"
Shotgun is 18"


Folding braces rock. I only have one firearm with a brace and it does exactly what I want it to do. I now have a compact but manageable 12ga.

 

[Fredkrueger100]

Screw the NFA!!

 

[Tanis143]

To be a stickler...the length requirements are different for shotguns and rifles, FYI

Rifle is 16"
Shotgun is 18"


Folding braces rock. I only have one firearm with a brace and it does exactly what I want it to do. I now have a compact but manageable 12ga.

Thanks for the info, for some reason I thought they were the same length.

 

[GlockPride]

Ok, to me this was a way to say hey we can so what we want and you can’t say anything. This is also why for a long while you couldn’t shoulder a brace, than you could, and not….back and forth for a few months. I personally understand why you would want to carry a mid-sized rifle caliber around if I lived somewhere where there was a high threat of mass shooting or a horde of zombies coming around the corner. I don’t live in places like that and I don’t go to those places to often. I understand that mass shootings can happen anywhere at any time, but I also try not to put myself in that situation where something like that might happen. I personally don’t understand why you want to push the issues of the law. When you start to get in that grey area it can usually end up bad for someone, either in jail or spending a lot of money to stay out of jail. I would never carry a rifle caliber pistol anywhere other than my property and then I would still rather have

21 O.S 1290.6. Prohibited Ammunition Any concealed or unconcealed handgun when carried in a manner authorized by the provisions of the Oklahoma Self-Defense Act and when loaded with any ammunition which is either a restricted bullet as defined by Section 1289.19 of this title or is larger than .45 caliber or is otherwise prohibited by law shall be deemed a prohibited weapon for purposes of the Oklahoma Self-Defense Act. Any person violating the provisions of this section shall be punished for a criminal offense as provided by Section 1272 of this title or any other applicable provision of law. In addition to any criminal prosecution for a violation of the provisions of this section, the licensee shall be subject to an administrative fine of Five Hundred Dollars ($500.00), upon a hearing and determination by the Oklahoma State Bureau of Investigation that the person is in violation of the provisions of this section.

So I don’t see a need for it, but to each there own.

Well, under SDA then carry a .223 and not a .450 Bushmaster.
I disagree with your sentiment in the first paragraph and “I don’t live in places like that”. You just never know when bad stuff may happen. Heck, what about that lady who lived out in nowhere that murdered her kids? Escaped convicts and all those farm houses that they’ve entered. Say you came upon something like that, some how. I would rather have a rifle caliber than a pistol caliber. Better to have it and not need it than need and not have. But, hey, if you aren’t trained and ready to use it, better to leave it in the closet or in the gun store.

 

[adamsredlines]

I think the only way its bad for the community is if "they" start changing the law or flip flop on their rulings...which as we know has happened. Its bad for the gun community to come out with a new idea and have it approved by the powers that be, for them to change their mind and reverse that approval and essentially turn all owners of an item into felons over night without any real legislative change. Arbitrarily reclassifying a plastic stock to be a machine gun does just that. That product is a result of the NFA rules and someone building a product to achieve an outcome that meets all NFA rules and regulations. It was approved, then arbitrarily disapproved and everybody who owns one is now a felon. The same could happen with braces, they could arbitrarily become disapproved and now everybody has an unregistered SBR/SBS where they were previously golden per the law of the land.

 

[Yeti695]

Well, under SDA then carry a .223 and not a .450 Bushmaster.
I disagree with your sentiment in the first paragraph and “I don’t live in places like that”. You just never know when bad stuff may happen. Heck, what about that lady who lived out in nowhere that murdered her kids? Escaped convicts and all those farm houses that they’ve entered. Say you came upon something like that, some how. I would rather have a rifle caliber than a pistol caliber. Better to have it and not need it than need and not have. But, hey, if you aren’t trained and ready to use it, better to leave it in the closet or in the gun store.

So you didn’t read the rest of the paragraph. I stated that I understand that shootings and other things can happen anywhere. Here in rural Oklahoma where, I live, a man shot and killed another man a few years ago. Compare that to Tulsa or even OKC, not as many people so there is a less chance that it happens here. Sorry that you don’t agree with the SDA of Oklahoma. I didn’t write that law, if you have an issue with the SDA, I would contact your legislator. Here is link where you can find him or her. http://www.oklegislature.gov/FindMyLegislature.aspx

I agree about having it and not needing it, than need it and not have it. The discussion was would anyone carry a rifle sized caliber pistol. I'm not a lawyer, but what I read that if you tried to conceal that caliber it would be illegal. I would not open carry any pistol of any caliber, just my preference. If you feel that you need to carry a rifle caliber pistol feel free, just don’t get mad when someone calls the cops and says there a man out here carrying a scary black “automatic” rifle. It has happened and probably will again. I agree if you don’t have the training, then you should not use it.