Sniper rifle

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B Gordon

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Most 1" tactical scopes will have 60+MOA of adjustment - that will get you to 1200y+ with 100 yard zero. No doubt 30mm will have more room for adjustment - but I don't think it's some kind of arbitrary must have.
There are so many qualitative variables to be considered (glass, knobs, clicks, construction, zoom, etc) - that the quantitative concerns should be last (tube size, objective size, length etc).

I would respectfully disagree with you on this.

First off, just beacuse a scope has some specific amount of total adjustment (60+ moa in your post) doesn't mean it has that much USABLE adjustment. I used to run the 1000 yard matches at Red Castle and many times people would show up with their rig and try to shoot 1000 yards, only to find out that their scope lacks sufficient adjustment to get them there.

For argument's sake lets say you have a scope with 60 moa of adjustment and your 100 yard zero is in the exact optical center of the scope (most are not), giving you 30 moa of usable + elevation and 30 moa of useless - adjustment downwards. With a flat base this is about normal because the optical center of the scope gives the best picture. If you change to a 20 moa base to shoot longer range this puts your 100 yard zero well off the optical center but leaves you approx. 10 moa above optical center at 1000 yards, a reasonable compromise.
Now, lets say you are shooting a 308 rig utilizing the 175 Matchking bullet at about 2700 fps. This takes around 35-36 moa to get to 1000 yards. With a flat base you are out of adjustment somewhere around 800-900 yards. Even with a 20 moa base you can be right at the top of the adjustment range due to variances in how bases fit onto actions. I have a remington action that is so out of true with the bore that I have to put 5 or 6 moa of additional elevation and some windage to get it centered at 100 yards. An additional issue is that adjustments become inconsistent as you are closer to the limits. Close to the center of adjustment, you can get a nice even 1/4 moa per click but towards the limits you can have no actual change of impact even though there are clicks left. Seen that several times when people are doing a box test at 100 yards.

There is good reason that 30mm and bigger scope are becoming popular. A huge reason, particularly for longer range, is the amount of light and clarity that the larger body allows to pass thru. I have discussed it at length with a couple of manufacturer rep's who participate in tactical matches during down time but still don't have a good feel for what goes on inside of the scope. Ther is a lot of very precise stuff in there to make everything work correctly. People who only shoot out to 300 yards often think that 1" scopes are perfectly acceptable right until I have them lay down and compare their stuff up against good quality optics.
Cheap 30mm scopes often utilize 1" internals so that a manufacturer can charge a premium without actually having to design something from scratch so you have to be careful what you buy. One big red flag is if a 30mm scope has the same total adjustment amount as a 1" model.

Bottom line, if you figure on shooting out to 1000 yards or past you actually do need a 30mm scope body with enough elevation adjustment to get a VERIFIED couple of hundred yards past the maximum yardage you anticipate.
 

MoBoost

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I would respectfully disagree with you on this.
I'll bite :)

First off, just beacuse a scope has some specific amount of total adjustment (60+ moa in your post) doesn't mean it has that much USABLE adjustment.

For argument's sake lets say you have a scope with 60 moa of adjustment and your 100 yard zero is in the exact optical center of the scope (most are not), giving you 30 moa of usable + elevation and 30 moa of useless - adjustment downwards. With a flat base this is about normal because the optical center of the scope gives the best picture. If you change to a 20 moa base to shoot longer range this puts your 100 yard zero well off the optical center but leaves you approx. 10 moa above optical center at 1000 yards, a reasonable compromise.
Now, lets say you are shooting a 308 rig utilizing the 175 Matchking bullet at about 2700 fps. This takes around 35-36 moa to get to 1000 yards. With a flat base you are out of adjustment somewhere around 800-900 yards. Even with a 20 moa base you can be right at the top of the adjustment range due to variances in how bases fit onto actions. I have a remington action that is so out of true with the bore that I have to put 5 or 6 moa of additional elevation and some windage to get it centered at 100 yards. An additional issue is that adjustments become inconsistent as you are closer to the limits. Close to the center of adjustment, you can get a nice even 1/4 moa per click but towards the limits you can have no actual change of impact even though there are clicks left. Seen that several times when people are doing a box test at 100 yards.

These are all good points, but everything you said is universal. Any scope has finite amount of adjustment, proper base should be used regardless of tube size.

There is good reason that 30mm and bigger scope are becoming popular. A huge reason, particularly for longer range, is the amount of light and clarity that the larger body allows to pass thru.

WRONG!!! WRONG!!! WRONG!!!
Amount of light going in is direct function of size objective ONLY.
Amount of light coming out is direct function of zoom and glass quality ONLY.
Clarity is function of glass quality ONLY.

Cheap 30mm scopes often utilize 1" internals so that a manufacturer can charge a premium without actually having to design something from scratch so you have to be careful what you buy. One big red flag is if a 30mm scope has the same total adjustment amount as a 1" model.

Actually using the erector from 1" scope what give you more room for adjustment inside 30mm tube.
img.photobucket.com_albums_v398_pneuguy_bscop1.jpg


Bottom line, if you figure on shooting out to 1000 yards or past you actually do need a 30mm scope body with enough elevation adjustment to get a VERIFIED couple of hundred yards past the maximum yardage you anticipate.

$200 Bushnell 10x40 with 1" tube has 80 MOA adjustment ... do some research, see how many sub-$1000 30mm scopes can beat that.
 

promiseofwar

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After reading all the posts I had to look back at your original post to see what you are looking for! I think the .308 is a nice caliber to get your feet wet. Like others have said, your optics are important and will probably cost more than your gun. I would look for one (optic) that is specific for your caliber and has a BDC reticle. Good luck and welcome to the world of trading up until you get what you want. Good Luck!
 

Wolf44

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Light Transmission as perceived by the Eye is the result of Lens Coating quality, glass quality, OBJ size, magnification/number of lenses light has to pass through, and Tube Diameter being a wild card.

Great - I am glad 1'' scopes have a million MOA of adjustment. How's that repeatability, durability and longevity?

If your going to build or want a purpose built rifle, Spend the money to get a quality scope, and that will most likely come in 30MM, 34MM or 35MM tube as Mo eluded too.

Picking a reticle style, MOA or MIL adj., click values, SFP vs FFP, Magnification needs, size/weight etc are decisions that will dictate the end purchase.
 

jakerz

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Besides offering more elevation and windage travel, the only benefit I can see from a 34mm or 35mm tube is added strength to scope. Makes finding rings a little bit harder too.

I agree with Mo that the qualitative variables are WAY more important. Quality of glass is 10 times more important than tube size IMO. I would take a 1" scope by a quality manufacturer over a 30mm piece of junk any day.

Things I consider the most important when purchasing a new scope are (no specific order):

Reticle design
Quality of glass
Click/Knob feel
Elevation/windage tracking
Manufacturer's warranty
 

MoBoost

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The only benefit I can see from a 34mm or 35mm tube is added strength to scope.

Ding - ding - ding. We got a winner.
Bigger tube - you can use thicker wall for main tube AND erector; and you have more room for more and beefier erector springs.

Everything else is lies, speculations, ignorance and marketing.

:urwelcome:
 

RedTape

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Here's what I would do. Go to Dick's and buy a Remington 700 ADL Varmit in .308. I think they're like $450 right now (they were selling them for $350 last year on Black Friday). Get a Vortex PST and either Black Hills or Federal GMM ammo (168 and or 175 grain SMK bullets). Learn to shoot to the rifles potential.... then use it for a build.

I've got a couple of these cheap Remingtons. They shoot under MOA and I've got them just over .5 MOA with handloads. Can't be beat for the money. You'll learn how to shoot at long range and at the same time you'll learn what you want in a rifle. What you want will change with experience, so don't spend too much money just yet. For instance, do you prefer McMillan or AICS? You'll find out after going to matches and shooting different rifles.
 

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