The new Christian Forum

[TerryMiller]

Evolution occurring is a fact, creation as described by christians is a theory..... one that isn't well backed.

It's interesting that you've used the words "evolution is a fact." What you didn't use, and I don't think can, are the words "evolution is a LAW of science." You know, the progression of Hypothesis, Theory, Law. Since evolution isn't a law of science, thus, it is a belief as well and one must also have faith in the facts of that science.

Now, in reference to my comment about Lee Strobel (whom you tried to laugh off), can you also laugh off those scientists whom he interviewed?

 

[TerryMiller]

Actually, you won't hear that from me because "accepting Jesus as their Lord and Savior" isn't enough. According to the Bible, there are six things one must do for salvation, not just "accepting Jesus."

Please allow me to correct my wording with regard to the above statement I made earlier. Instead of saying that there are "six things one must do for salvation," I should have said that "there is a process of six things" that one must do, if one believes the Bible's teachings. Basically, it is still about the same, but as a process, it is less confusing than thinking that there is a "bucket list" of sorts to do.

For those uninformed, those six, which are a logical progression, are:

Hearing
Believing
Repenting
Confessing
Being baptized
Remaining faithful.

Sorry if that earlier comment confused anyone.

 

[Okie4570]

I'd likely be a Christian today if I hadn't started interacting with Southern Baptists in Jr. High.

I grew up Southern Baptist and still am, late 70's early 80's. It was doom and gloom from the pulpit. If you weren't there for both Sunday services and Wednesday night, you were treated like you needed to go through the whole salvation process again. The word grace was never mentioned, it was all about what you shouldn't do, and a list of things that were taboo. A list so long that nobody could live it, so people just did it in secret............dumb things like dancing, playing cards, smoking, drinking, etc.

Definitely the cause of why so many think Christians are hypocrites today. It wasn't until jr. high and high school that I went to other churches, both Southern Baptists and other denominations that I realized that this was how the majority of Southern Baptist churches were at the time. I strayed away from church for several years during high school and afterword. Now that I'm older and been back in church for the last 15+ years in a church were true grace is taught (which doesn't mean that you can live a free for all life and you're still good to go) I can look back and see how those churches at that time were turning so many people off, and turning so many people away as they were NEVER going to live up to the churches expectations. Where I attend now, our pastor was dismissed from the Southern Baptist Convention a few years ago for pointing out flaws in their bylaws and for pointing out in scripture why they are wrong...........so believe it or not there is a graced based Southern Baptist church in existence with an attendance of about 2500+.

 

[Okie4570]

Please allow me to correct my wording with regard to the above statement I made earlier. Instead of saying that there are "six things one must do for salvation," I should have said that "there is a process of six things" that one must do, if one believes the Bible's teachings. Basically, it is still about the same, but as a process, it is less confusing than thinking that there is a "bucket list" of sorts to do.

For those uninformed, those six, which are a logical progression, are:

Hearing
Believing
Repenting
Confessing
Being baptized
Remaining faithful.

Sorry if that earlier comment confused anyone.

Do you attend the Church of Christ? Just helps me understand where you're coming from, not condemning.

 

[TerryMiller]

Do you attend the Church of Christ? Just helps me understand where you're coming from, not condemning.

Yes. Grew up there and as I got older, I questioned religion as a whole a lot. While in the Army, I was blessed to be associated with and have discussions with people of other churches/faiths, so I began to learn more and more. Believe it or not, at 69 years old, I'm still learning. What I have learned has actually reinforced my beliefs in the churches of Christ.

 

[TerryMiller]

You obviously have a much thicker skin than I. When I hear religion...I think of brainwashed hatred. Not love, or peace, or fact based. Something completely fictitious that was originated to control the masses.

Interesting thought about religion. Could it be your "thinking" is actually a result from brainwashing? After all, "scientists" are always trying to disprove God, but so far, I think the Bible still outsells all the scientific tomes combined.

 

[Billybob]

Yes, I know. I was talking about Hobbes. Anybody that promotes evil, lies, and deceit is not welcome in Oklahoma.

Yet we proudly claim the name "Sooners", contradiction?

 

[JD8]

It's interesting that you've used the words "evolution is a fact." What you didn't use, and I don't think can, are the words "evolution is a LAW of science." You know, the progression of Hypothesis, Theory, Law. Since evolution isn't a law of science, thus, it is a belief as well and one must also have faith in the facts of that science.

Now, in reference to my comment about Lee Strobel (whom you tried to laugh off), can you also laugh off those scientists whom he interviewed?

Your understanding of science seems a bit superficial or you are trying to oversimplify things to fit your argument as you probably are associating "law" with the highest order of truth. Not necessarily, as not all biological phenomenon can be mathematically qualified. By your theory, one has to "believe" that something will happen if it's not quantified by scientific law. Which means you're saying that I believe mutations happen over time. Whether I "believe" it happens, it will happen regardless, if you disagree then by all means explain that to the nearest cancer, flu, or staph patient closest to you. You see, one can reference evolutionary processes at least on a microbiological level easily and quickly.


In regards to Strobel, sorry but I don't change a foundation on what a glorified reporter turned pastor says he found. I invite you to read Dawkins if you want someone that has a background in science that can apply reference and logic.

 

[RidgeHunter]

Sounds like K9 is back. Welcome.

The hilarious thing is that skeevy pomposity and faux-intellectualism must just secrete from his pores like a bodily function he has no control over.

Even brought back the "quotation marks".

So Dave … you keep skirting the question. Why the emotional attachment to this issue? You seem to dial up a great deal of passion and animus towards those in law enforcement. Why?

First, if someone stands up for their beliefs that are different than yours, you are calling them a bigot when you don’t even know if there is genuine animus to define alleged bigotry (such as in the Oregon bakers)? Or is it only wrong and “bigoted” when people do not have the same beliefs as you?

Now to show you that I have no animus towards you, let me offer you a metaphorical tissue

.

Let's play "who said it?" for $5?

Kids, our vocab word of the day is "animus". Try to use it at home with your parents.

...I could find more but we're off to the famer's market.

 

[JD8]

Interesting thought about religion. Could it be your "thinking" is actually a result from brainwashing? After all, "scientists" are always trying to disprove God, but so far, I think the Bible still outsells all the scientific tomes combined.

Scientists in general aren't actively trying to disprove "god." Most embrace spirituality in some form, from my experiences. On the flipside, they might however show that certain religious claims are false like the old 6000 yr old earth theory.