The Open Carry Argument

[RedTape]

People who post threads on here saying people that open carry are idiots for doing so are the jerks. People who create an argument against open carry for the sake of argument are idiots/jerks. The point is: WHO CARES HOW YOU CARRY AS LONG AS YOU CARRY!!! People need to stop calling the other party "stupid" because of their carry method. I don't care which God you worship. I don't care how you carry. I don't care what you do for a job. People, especially those on this forum, need to stop being judgmental of others for their carry method.

I don't see anywhere on here where anyone called another member an idiot.

I don't see anywhere on here where anyone called another member stupid.

YOU are the only one in this discussion who called people idiots and jerks. I have no idea what God or religion has to do with this discussion...in case you missed it this is the Self Defense and Handgun Carry forum. We discuss things like...carrying handguns. That's kind of the point of being here. We aren't arguing for "the sake of arguing." If you don't want to discuss carrying handguns, you can go to the general discussion forum.

You still didn't answer any of my questions or contribute anything to this discussion

I get it, you don't care how others carry "as long as they carry." That's a pretty broad statement. When my family members started carrying I certainly cared HOW they carried. I still do. I would prefer to see the good guys carry and train to use their weapons in the safest, most efficient manner because it could save their life someday.

 

[loudshirt]

So if I understand you right, you're saying a determined criminal patterned his target, learned his routine, strengths, weaknesses and then attacked him with the intention of killing him and taking the money. I think in that case I would want to screw with their train of thought. If they had no idea I had a weapon and suddenly I present one...combine that with me running from them at an angle...now they've got two things they weren't prepared for and they have to make some quick decisions. That kind of determined criminal is exactly the kind you don't want knowing you have a weapon. Combine that with your situational awareness and you've got a fighting chance.

As for the "quick draw" talk. If you have done any practice with drawing from concealment vs. drawing from an open retention holster....(you are going to be open carrying with a retention holster right?)...you know there is not that much difference. And if you've done some force on force training, you know you're not going to be able to react fast enough to someone who is already presenting a weapon to beat them to the shot.

As for the "gangsta won't attack/fight someone armed"....you're right. That's never ever happened before.

Mike is absolutely correct. Although the scenarios MIGHT play out the way the original author imagines, he is basing everything he believes on theories....theories which fly in the face of some of the most experienced and best instructors in the country. But what the heck, some anonymous guy posted on the Internet his beliefs on why open open carry is good, so they must be true.

If I understand you correctly you are saying that man would be alive today if he cc'd? If the criminals took enough time to watch your routine day after day and planned an ambush it would not matter how you carried if they came at you shooting first you better hope the first shots missed while you react to the ambush. I do agree that situational awareness would give you more of a fighting chance. I do disagree with the if they had no idea I had a weapon part. I really dont think they cared and would more than likely have shot him armed or unarmed, open carry or concealed.

 

[RedTape]

If I understand you correctly you are saying that man would be alive today if he cc'd? If the criminals took enough time to watch your routine day after day and planned an ambush it would not matter how you carried if they came at you shooting first you better hope the first shots missed while you react to the ambush. I do agree that situational awareness would give you more of a fighting chance. I do disagree with the if they had no idea I had a weapon part. I really dont think they cared and would more than likely have shot him armed or unarmed, open carry or concealed.

No. I never said he would still be alive if he concealed carried. We can do everything right and still get killed. The point is to stack the odds in our favor....which includes situational awareness, training and yes, the element of surprise.

If a determined criminal is targeting you and he KNOWS you have a gun, he is going to plan his attack to stop you before you ever have a chance to draw your weapon. If the same criminal targets you and he has no idea you are armed, there's a chance he underestimates you and flees when he realizes you have a weapon. Is it a guarantee? Of course not, but again we're trying to gain every little bit of advantage. Don't underestimate how much of an advantage making them change their tactics can be. Simply surprising them with a weapon and running off line can cause them to stop and reevaluate their approach and their target. Those seconds can give you time to gain the upper hand.

So you may be asking yourself...if there's a chance he might flee when he realizes you are armed, wouldn't that support open carry? On the surface, yes. But you have to look a littler deeper and factor in different types of criminals. The same types of criminals who would be scared off by open carry are just as likely to be scared off when they realize you are not a victim...i.e. making eye contact, moving away from them, making noise to draw attention, and if necessary presenting your firearm. The type of criminal who is determined, patterns you and plans to use violence against you will simply factor in the fact you have a weapon and resort to violence quicker.

I believe you can deter less violent criminals without the need to open carry your firearm 24/7, while at the same time, not giving the more violent criminals time to figure out how to deal with their target who is armed.

 

[Mitch Rapp]

I am really torn on the whole open carry issue. I don't plan to make it a practice, but don't plan to act scared of it either. For instance, if I am gardening and need to run up to Wal-Mart to grab an item, I will probably be OCing just out of convenience, and won't put the gun away before going to the store. If the wife and I get a babysitter and go out to eat, I will not be OCing. In other words, if I am planning to be out in public I won't OC. If I run out to hit a drive through to grab dinner, then yeah, why not OC? If I am doing my monthly grocery shopping, no OC for me. Will I look down my nose at anyone I see OCing in public as the "uninformed" no, and I agree with Argyle about that.

As to it being a crime deterrent, the same could be said about simply being and acting alert. They teach soldiers that before they go overseas. Guess what, they are all "open carrying" M4 carbines, but who is more likely to get ambushed? the guys slouching around, and goofing off, or those who even while talking amongst themselves have their head on a swivel, and are alert.