The Welfare Myth

[donner]

i think it's great that people here equate tax dollars that go to welfare as someone holding them a gunpoint. I'm sure there are lots of anti-war members of our society (some of whom object on religious grounds) who feel the same about any money sent to the DoD and armed forces.

We can't pick and choose what our tax dollars go towards, only the lying politicians that draft the budgets and laws.

 

[LightningCrash]

i think it's great that people here equate tax dollars that go to welfare as someone holding them a gunpoint.

All taxation has always been at the point of a sword. Always.

Read this, let's talk:
Not yours to give

 

[donner]

All taxation has always been at the point of a sword. Always.

Read this, let's talk:
Not yours to give

of course all taxes are "at the point of a sword."

your point may get to a larger issue of taxation, but welfare as it currently stands is no more 'at gunpoint' than any other government-funded program, including military spending, welfare or corn subsidies.

 

[LightningCrash]

your point may get to a larger issue of taxation, but welfare as it currently stands is no more 'at gunpoint' than any other government-funded program, including military spending, welfare or corn subsidies.

And all of those should be dealt with. Is there a point you intended?

Just because the government finds the proclivity to make foie-gras of multiple things that we shouldn't be doing, doesn't mean that when we discuss X from among them that any man among us can't say "Government should not be doing X".

 

[WTJ]

i think it's great that people here equate tax dollars that go to welfare as someone holding them a gunpoint. I'm sure there are lots of anti-war members of our society (some of whom object on religious grounds) who feel the same about any money sent to the DoD and armed forces.

We can't pick and choose what our tax dollars go towards, only the lying politicians that draft the budgets and laws.

Defense is Constitutional. Welfare ain't. There's the difference.

 

[uncle money bags]

Because conservatives are forcing them to have the kids instead of free birth control and abortions.
we would be better off with forced birth control for welfare receipients.
Stop the baby factories!

"conservatives" are not forcing any one to have kids. The decision to accept the consequences of sexual intercourse is made when the act is commenced.

 

[donner]

And all of those should be dealt with. Is there a point you intended?

Just because the government finds the proclivity to make foie-gras of multiple things that we shouldn't be doing, doesn't mean that when we discuss X from among them that any man among us can't say "Government should not be doing X".

My point was that the idea of the government collecting taxes at gunpoint is ubiquitous to all taxes collected under our current system. I am not saying that welfare should be off limits, but just that arguing that we shouldn't be forced to pay for something we disagree with isn't limited to welfare, military spending or anything else. I have no problem arguing about how government spends our money (in fact, i think it's a good discussion to always have), i am just saying that arguing we shouldn't be paying for something because we are forced 'at gunpoint' to pay for it isn't a valid line of reasoning. If all of our taxes are forced 'at gunpoint' then the anything the government pays for falls into that same category.

Defense is Constitutional. Welfare ain't. There's the difference.

Yes and no. Welfare has never been ruled unconstitutional as far as i know. You can argue that it's not an enumerated power within the constitution, but there are a large number of other things that aren't enumerated that we value, privacy being one of them. I'm not arguing the validity or legality of military spending (or welfare spending). I'm merely pointing out that we can't pick and choose what our taxes are spent on, we can only select the politicians that make the laws. We can't say, 'i don't support X, so i don't want my tax money going towards it'.

 

[Blinocac200sx]

i think it's great that people here equate tax dollars that go to welfare as someone holding them a gunpoint. I'm sure there are lots of anti-war members of our society (some of whom object on religious grounds) who feel the same about any money sent to the DoD and armed forces.

We can't pick and choose what our tax dollars go towards, only the lying politicians that draft the budgets and laws.

Military defense is supposed to be a violent proposition. Helping people in need isn't.

 

[LightningCrash]

My point was that the idea of the government collecting taxes at gunpoint is ubiquitous to all taxes collected under our current system. I am not saying that welfare should be off limits, but just that arguing that we shouldn't be forced to pay for something we disagree with isn't limited to welfare, military spending or anything else. I have no problem arguing about how government spends our money (in fact, i think it's a good discussion to always have), i am just saying that arguing we shouldn't be paying for something because we are forced 'at gunpoint' to pay for it isn't a valid line of reasoning. If all of our taxes are forced 'at gunpoint' then the anything the government pays for falls into that same category.

Were it the argument at play, you'd be dead on. As it stands that's simply an argument you bore alone.

I don't mean to burden you with reading, but please, read the earlier link "Not yours to give."

 

[dennishoddy]

All taxation has always been at the point of a sword. Always.

Read this, let's talk:
Not yours to give

Just to fuel the fire. If we did not have taxes, would our military exist?
Would we have the interstate highways exist, would we not have a lot of things?

Taxes are necessary for the United States to exist. Without them we would be a 3rd world country, or worse.

I don't like them anymore than anybody else, and want to keep them at a minimum, but I do acknowledge we have to have them.