im a certified tech. i work on cars for a living. from experience i can tell you that oil is oil.
Any liquid can build hydraulic pressure. your engine uses hydraulic pressure to create a film between your rotating components (crankshaft , camshaft) and you stationary bearings in your block.
cars that specify synthetic oil are not necessarily engineered differently than those that dont specify. The only difference is the maintenance schedule. while under warranty the dealer wants you to service your car in intervals.
the only difference between synthetic and conventional is how quickly it breaks down.
Bottom line.....
if you want to go longer between changes GO SYNTHETIC.
if you want to save but are willing to keep changing your oil keep conventional.
The myth about creating leaks is bull. A bottle of 5-30 is just as thick synthetic 5-30. the only way seals can leak with one oil and not the other is if one is thinner than the other.
Any liquid can build hydraulic pressure. your engine uses hydraulic pressure to create a film between your rotating components (crankshaft , camshaft) and you stationary bearings in your block.
cars that specify synthetic oil are not necessarily engineered differently than those that dont specify. The only difference is the maintenance schedule. while under warranty the dealer wants you to service your car in intervals.
the only difference between synthetic and conventional is how quickly it breaks down.
Bottom line.....
if you want to go longer between changes GO SYNTHETIC.
if you want to save but are willing to keep changing your oil keep conventional.
The myth about creating leaks is bull. A bottle of 5-30 is just as thick synthetic 5-30. the only way seals can leak with one oil and not the other is if one is thinner than the other.
just to add.....
if you want your car to last the longest use all original parts.
you guys are worried about oil but what about the filter. There is a big difference between cheap and good filters.
most cheap filters do not have a drain back valve. most good filters do.
i use the cheapest oil and the original filters in my cars.
if you want your car to last the longest use all original parts.
you guys are worried about oil but what about the filter. There is a big difference between cheap and good filters.
most cheap filters do not have a drain back valve. most good filters do.
i use the cheapest oil and the original filters in my cars.
Thanks for the recommendations on filters. i had originally bought an STP filter, but after seeing what you wrote and an article comparing filters, I opted for a Purolator instead. Honestly had never heard of the brand but after reading up on them I like what I see.
One of the reasons I want to go to synthetic oil and have better filters is so that I can get away with having to change my oil less often. It looks like using synthetic and non-insane driving should allow me to nearly double the miles between changes. Also, I like the idea of getting slightly better gas mileage (possibly) and having the satisfaction and peace of mind knowing that it was done right. The ion does have an oil change indicator but truthfully we have never really gotten past about 4500 miles before it starts chirping at us. According to my owner's manual, synthetic is only required if it is a 2.4L DOHC (I think, its the ion redline). But since ours is just the 2.2L, we can use conventional. Still I would like to squeeze every last mile out
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Seriously, this looks like an awesome resource. I look forward to reading more on this stuff. If this was reddit I would upvote you sir.
Wow, thanks for all the replies so far. This is why I love this place!
So here is my oil change story thus far. Its not my first time doing this but it has been several years since I have changed it myself. Anyway, I purchased some jack stands, wheel chocks, and a drain pan to use. I jack up the car and promptly discover that the jack won't get the car high enough to even place the jackstands at the lowest height. Since I was using the tire-changing jack that comes with the car I guess I wasn't too surprised by this. So at 8:20pm I find myself heading over to harbor freight to pick up a floor jack (I figure that I can at least use it for future car maintenance projects right?) $85 later, I have a 2.5 ton floor jack and get to work: chock wheels jack up the car, position jack stands, everything is awesome.
Or so I thought. I get a couple of 6 point box wrenches (I couldn't find the right size socket wrench) thinking to myself "better not use the 12 point closed end wrenches, might round out the corners of the drain pan and that will really suck". For anyone who is curious, a 2007 ION uses a 15mm wrench to remove the drain plug (verified through car forum searches and also best fit). I tug and grunt and groan and said naughty things which is coincidentally also the same thing that happens when I get lucky and this damn plug will. not. budge. Finally I feel it give, except that the plug was just trolling me and what had really happened was that the wrench had slliped around the bolt and rounded some of the corners. So I double check that I really do have the right size for both metric and standard, and yes the 15mm really does fit the best, reposition the wrench, add a bar for additional leverage, and try again. and AGAIN, the wrench slips around the bolt.
Now I am starting to get irritated. I go and ask my wife which jackwagon at Jiffy Lube decided to use his impact wrench to channel all the wrath and fury of Zeus into over torquing my drain plug. She didn't know which was a pity because it meant I didn't have anyone to bean in the forehead with a drain plug! i go back out, try again and even double checking a few times that I am actually turning to the left and not to the right by accident. Again the wrench slips and I now have a nicely rounded drain plug. Uckfa.
To the internet I go, searching for how to remove a rounded drain plug. Vice-grips! Perfect! Get vice grips attached, place bar over the handle for increased leverage, pull with both hands while bracing myself against the (elevated) wheel. Finally after a great massive push I feel the drain plug break free except with the high pitched sharp *crack* I thought I had actually snapped the head off the drain plug. It actually had just broken free and could now be removed. SUCCESS! i debate whether to stick an impact wrench up the ass of the next jiffy lube guy I see but decide against it. Place the drain pan under, back the screw out, and apparently wasn't completely prepared for the way the oil would rush out because when it did, it shot all over the floor and I had to scramble to get the drain pan positioned properly (the jack stand was kind of in the way). So I get about 4.5 of the 5 quarts of oil into the drain pan, and the other half quart on my floor.
I let it drain for about 10 minutes, while I try to mop up what I could of the oil. Back to the internet I go to check up on how to get rid of an oil spill. I felt certain that BP might have some good tips but as it turns out only some water, powdered detergent, and scrubbing were necessary. Oh but wait, I can't put in the new oil because my drain plug is completely rounded. Put the car in neutral, roll it out onto the driveway, and just let it sit until tomorrow when I can go get a new drain pan plug, add oil, and torque it properly. Honestly I was expecting something between 30-50 ft-lbs but I would not have been surprised if this had been torqued on to 100 ft-lbs or more. From my inspection, the threads haven't been stripped so tomorrow after I get a new plug I will just keep an eye on it to see if any leaks come from the plug.
ye gods. hopefully this isn't what I get to look forward to every time I change the oil on my car! But I do have a torque wrench so at least I know that I will be torquing that baby to proper specs and not (hopefully) not having that problem the next time I do this. Anyway, thanks again for the advice and for letting me share
OK, just my personal experiences. Owned many internal combustion vehicles in my life, 19 cars, 4 jet-skis, 4 boats, 4 aircraft, 42 motorcycles, forgot how many lawnmowers, roto-tillers, power washers, etc.
For example, bought a 94 suburban that had synthetic oil all its life. They got rid of it because it used a quart every 700 miles. Switched to std 15-30, changed to a quart every 1900 - 2000 miles. Bought a GW Honda, clutch was slightly slipping in high gear. Wa-la - Changed from synthetic to std 10-30. Fixed the problem.
Purchased 4th aircraft, he only ran std 50W. Started looking at past AP engine re-builder posts. Way lot more engine rebuilds (less than TBO) after introduction of multi-viscosity oils. I will keep running 50W AeroShell, less additives than multi weight, and way less additives than full *Synthetic". A little additives already degrades it, why ask for more?.
If you want your oil to look good after 20,000 miles, and provide the same qualities it had when it was new,----fine. I am not looking for that in my lubrication requirements. My self, I would rather pour in something that was doing its job, slick and oily for 3K miles and gets ate up, doing what it does. I can then say, "Thank you for your service, draining you now". not "I am glad all those other additives protected you while they were eating up my crankshaft and camshaft".
Oil and its properties are what I need, not additives that look good on paper 20K afterward. If you do not need much lubrication, replace it with polymers or whatever. It mightl give your crankshaft something to chew on in it's spare time.
I guess I might push my crankshafts harder that others do.
I do not think I have ever heard on a synthetic oil for my favorite Nitro Fuel dragster at 7000hp, Wonder why?
Ok, down to real life, what is the ratio of engine explosion vs accessory failure, window motor, plastic stuff degradation of your particular vehicle or other stuff that would give you reason to trade/sell your car down the road? How much extra/oil change $?
On the other hand, if you change your muffler bearings every 25K miles, your exhaust will flow out easier, resulting in less engine wear, less strain on your crankshaft, camshaft, valves, and other moving parts.
Most people neglect this during their 500K maintenance inspection because the dealers do not want you to know this during their warranty period so it can jam you up later and it will be more of a profit to them. Act now or you may be forever doomed to have -- smelly socks, which will reduce your combustion at least another 4MPG.. The only way to avoid this to pour in at least 6oz of the secret formula developed by the wife of the famous Dr. Sholes, the mileage master professional. I would give you the name of someone else, but really con not think of anyone at the time. Call me when your crankshaft dropps out. .Ken
For example, bought a 94 suburban that had synthetic oil all its life. They got rid of it because it used a quart every 700 miles. Switched to std 15-30, changed to a quart every 1900 - 2000 miles. Bought a GW Honda, clutch was slightly slipping in high gear. Wa-la - Changed from synthetic to std 10-30. Fixed the problem.
Purchased 4th aircraft, he only ran std 50W. Started looking at past AP engine re-builder posts. Way lot more engine rebuilds (less than TBO) after introduction of multi-viscosity oils. I will keep running 50W AeroShell, less additives than multi weight, and way less additives than full *Synthetic". A little additives already degrades it, why ask for more?.
If you want your oil to look good after 20,000 miles, and provide the same qualities it had when it was new,----fine. I am not looking for that in my lubrication requirements. My self, I would rather pour in something that was doing its job, slick and oily for 3K miles and gets ate up, doing what it does. I can then say, "Thank you for your service, draining you now". not "I am glad all those other additives protected you while they were eating up my crankshaft and camshaft".
Oil and its properties are what I need, not additives that look good on paper 20K afterward. If you do not need much lubrication, replace it with polymers or whatever. It mightl give your crankshaft something to chew on in it's spare time.
I guess I might push my crankshafts harder that others do.
I do not think I have ever heard on a synthetic oil for my favorite Nitro Fuel dragster at 7000hp, Wonder why?
Ok, down to real life, what is the ratio of engine explosion vs accessory failure, window motor, plastic stuff degradation of your particular vehicle or other stuff that would give you reason to trade/sell your car down the road? How much extra/oil change $?
On the other hand, if you change your muffler bearings every 25K miles, your exhaust will flow out easier, resulting in less engine wear, less strain on your crankshaft, camshaft, valves, and other moving parts.
Most people neglect this during their 500K maintenance inspection because the dealers do not want you to know this during their warranty period so it can jam you up later and it will be more of a profit to them. Act now or you may be forever doomed to have -- smelly socks, which will reduce your combustion at least another 4MPG.. The only way to avoid this to pour in at least 6oz of the secret formula developed by the wife of the famous Dr. Sholes, the mileage master professional. I would give you the name of someone else, but really con not think of anyone at the time. Call me when your crankshaft dropps out. .Ken
i see these comparisons all the time and they are asinine. Top fuel dragsters only need to make it down the track a couple times before the engine is rebuilt. Also a quick google search seems to pop up that quite a fuel top fuel dragsters use synthetic.
Here's some cool facts about top fuel:
http://www.nhra.net/streetlegal/funfacts.html
To the OP,
If it was me and you're not wanting to extend the mileage, just run what you're running now. It goes back to if it isn't broke don't fix it! But if you're wanting to extend your service intervals go ahead and try it. I think where leaks develop is on older vehicles with higher mileage. You should be fine.
While the overall viscosity is the same, the molecules in synthetic oil more consistent in size. I did slightly misspeak about the reason for potential leaks with switching. Synthetic can leak through smaller gaps in seals, but there is an additional process at work- conventional oils create a lot of sludge, synthetics don't. After a couple of oil changes, synthetic oil will have flushed much of the sludge out of an engine, exposing the seals to the molecularly-smaller oil. If you cleaned out the engine, you have had a leak regardless of the type of oil, but it will be more prevalent with synthetic.
I always heard that it was due differences in seal swelling characteristics. http://www.popularmechanics.com/_mobile/cars/how-to/products/4213451
Use a good oil filter, I use either the mobil 1 , purolater, or wix.
I've used Rotella synthetic in my car and motorcyle for years with no problems. I usually change oil and filter on my car at 10,000 miles. Used to get
Rotella cheaper than other synthetic oils at Wal-Mart. Noticed price keeps going up though.
Rotella cheaper than other synthetic oils at Wal-Mart. Noticed price keeps going up though.
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