And I've just been waiting patiently for you to post in this thread ... (BTW, you are a GOOD MAN for spending that much time on us uneducated yahoos!!
Some of us more uneducated -- ME 
-- than others, for sure ... 
)
And I've just been waiting patiently for you to post in this thread ... (BTW, you are a GOOD MAN for spending that much time on us uneducated yahoos!!
Some of us more uneducated -- ME -- than others, for sure ... )
Ok, here's some little tips. My disclaimer is that this is for strictly SHTF kind of scenarios, do your own research, yadda yadda yadda. I'm not liable for anyone going off half-cocked and taking ANY of these meds at ANY time without talking to their own personal physician about the individual situation. Capische?
Ok...
Antibiotics will last beyond the date they have on the bottle - usually. USUALLY. This is assuming regular storage conditions with HVAC, controlled humidity, out of sunlight, etc. I'd recommend cool, dry storage. And those little moisture-absorbing beads wouldn't be a bad idea if you're doing more long-term storage. I have noticed decreased efficacy of meds stored in hot cars in summer for months on end, etc. Things like tylenol, ibuprofen, psuedoephedrine, etc. Heat causes them to degrade. My favorite cough med is benzonatate, but it is a liquid in a gelcap and it degrades more rapidly than tablets (all liquids usually will).
So... I usually keep a bottle of Bactrim around the house. It's cheap. It lasts. It works. it's a good broad-spectrum kinda thing. I replace it once or twice a year or if it gets used.
Here're some tips for different antibiotics you might think about acquiring for SHTF scenarios - your "Walking Dead-era pharmacy shopping list", if you will. The prices I am including assume generic where available, as well as shopping around. Lots of variability in pharmacy pricing. Don't get me started on that... <sigh>
If you can convince your healthcare provider to get you a refillable script to keep a few of these in your supply, make sure to rotate them, and make sure you discuss with your provider when they are to be used! (And no, I can't help with that. Sorry.)
Skin infections -
That yellowish crusty, draining rash on your 3 year-old's lips and chin may be impetigo. Most skin infections these days are staph, and 50-75% of them in just the general public are MRSA. So keep a supply of Hibiclens liquid soap. It's good stuff, not harsh, and the chlorhexadine is great for killing anything. And not too expensive, either.
amoxicillin - good antibitioc for mild skin stuff, especially in kiddos. $4 list.
cephalexin - as above. $4 list. Cephalosporins, especially early-generation ones (cephalexin/Keflex is first-gen) have a rep for having a cross-reactivity allergy with people who have a penicillin allergy. Some of the PharmDs I know told me that they were able to trace back a good number of these early reactions by lot number to factories manufacturing cephalosporins where penicillins were previously manufactured. So take that for what it's worth.
cipro - as mentioned above, good for anthrax. Otherwise, not a usual choice for me on skin infections. So look for those characteristic black nasty eschars. $4 list.
Bactrim (trimethoprim/sulfamethoxazole) - my usual go-to when it comes to most skin things like abscesses and cellulitis. Also on the $4 list.
Augmentin is also a great skin antibiotic, it's just amoxicillin with added clavulonic acid. Good stuff, but not cheap, really. Although amox/clav is available generic, just not cheap cheap. Diarrhea almost guaranteed.
Avelox - same class as Cipro, new generation, good good stuff. Expensive.
doxycycline - great skin antibiotic, especially for those repetitive multiple nodular abscesses in the armpits, groin, under breasts, etc. This is usually something called hidradenitis suppurativa, and doxy works extremely well on it. Used to be on the $4 list - now it's something like $92.
clindamycin - very good at killing MRSA, not too cheap, probably around $60 or so. Lots of diarrhea with this one. Clostridium difficile is a real risk, especially if using after another antibiotic failure or with another antibiotic. Google it.
Lung infections - keep in mind, the vast vast VAST majority of bronchial lung infections in America are VIRAL. Antibiotics may make you feel like you're doing something, may help prevent secondary bacterial infections (though these are mostly in asthmatics, uncontrolled diabetics, CHF and COPD), but really, lots of rest, keeping warm, chicken soup, plenty of fluids and hacking all that **** out of your lungs along with symptomatic therapy is going to help much more in the longrun than antibiotics.
amoxicillin or cephalexin - these are used mostly just to give people an antibiotic so they think they got their money's worth from an office visit/urgent care/ER for lungs, honestly. See above.
Augmentin (amoxicillin/clavulonic acid) - better for a true bacterial lung infection
Cipro/Avelox/Levaquin - Cipro is cheap, but not a good solo choice for a lung infection. Google Jim Henson. The others are great, but expensive. These are the three main meds in the fluoroquinolone class.
Zithromax (azithromycin) - pretty good, covers atypical pneumonias like Mycoplasma, but not too expensive - around $20 or so, I think. Newer generation of erethromycin, clarithromycin, etc. Probably an option for skin stuff, too, but won't usually kill MRSA.
doxy - also pretty good for pneumonia
clindamycin - also good, not first choice mainly due to diarrhea and C.diff risk.
STDs -
chlamydia (the clap) - single 1000mg dose of Zithromax (azithromycin)
gonorrhea - single dose injectible Rocephin. Harder to get.
PID - Pelvic Inflammtory Disease - look up the "PID Shuffle". Doxycycline or Augmentin. AFTER both of the above.
Trichomonas - Flagyl
Yeast - besides OTC (over the counter) remedies, a single largish dose of diflucan usually works. Lots of women need this after taking almost any antibiotic for any other reason.
UTIs -
Roll your dice, pick one.
amoxicillin or cephalexin - this is mainly in little girls. Not first choice in adults.
Cipro
Bactrim
Macrobid (nitrofurantoin)
Levaquin (but not Avelox)
GI infections - I would be very very hesitant to use antibiotics on any acute diarrhea, i.e., food poisoning, etc. VERY. If someone has a history of Crohn's, diverticulitis, colitis, etc., then maybe. But if you do things wrong, you can kill someone.
Cipro/Flagyl is a good combo for diverticulitis. You can substitute Levaquin for the Cipro if you have it. Augmentin is a possibility, but not my first choice. I saw a guy this week whose life was saved because someone put him on Cipro thinking he had a bad gallbladder... 5 days later when I found his ruptured appendix, the Cipro had kept things *somewhat* at bay and likely kept him alive. But in some cases (certain E.coli infections, for instance), it can hasten your death. GI infections are not ones to just throw antibiotics at.
Water-borne parasites like giardia get Flagyl.
Ears/Throat - Most throat infections aren't strep, they're viral. Just like lungs. But if you have to have something to make you think you're treating it, here are some options. For ears, I go in this order until it stops working on kids, then move to the next on the list - usually. Throats are pretty similar progression.
amoxicillin or cephalexin
Augmentin
Bactrim
Zithromax
Omnicef (cefdinir) - expensive, and turns your poo red. I mean RED. It's not bleeding, it's the antibiotic.
Dental -
amoxicillin or cephalexin
Augmentin
Bactrim
Clindamycin
doxy
I hope this is somewhat helpful. Lots of inexpensive meds that cover several areas you can keep, but the bottom line is, to really cover your bases you'd have to stock a whole room. lol Quick and dirty list for me would be multiple bottles of Bactrim, amoxicillin and some Zpacks (Zithromax). That's a good start that will keep your costs down and cover a whole whole bunch of the most common stuff.
Ok...
Antibiotics will last beyond the date they have on the bottle - usually. USUALLY. This is assuming regular storage conditions with HVAC, controlled humidity, out of sunlight, etc. I'd recommend cool, dry storage. And those little moisture-absorbing beads wouldn't be a bad idea if you're doing more long-term storage. I have noticed decreased efficacy of meds stored in hot cars in summer for months on end, etc. Things like tylenol, ibuprofen, psuedoephedrine, etc. Heat causes them to degrade. My favorite cough med is benzonatate, but it is a liquid in a gelcap and it degrades more rapidly than tablets (all liquids usually will).
So... I usually keep a bottle of Bactrim around the house. It's cheap. It lasts. It works. it's a good broad-spectrum kinda thing. I replace it once or twice a year or if it gets used.
Here're some tips for different antibiotics you might think about acquiring for SHTF scenarios - your "Walking Dead-era pharmacy shopping list", if you will. The prices I am including assume generic where available, as well as shopping around. Lots of variability in pharmacy pricing. Don't get me started on that... <sigh>
If you can convince your healthcare provider to get you a refillable script to keep a few of these in your supply, make sure to rotate them, and make sure you discuss with your provider when they are to be used! (And no, I can't help with that. Sorry.)
Skin infections -
That yellowish crusty, draining rash on your 3 year-old's lips and chin may be impetigo. Most skin infections these days are staph, and 50-75% of them in just the general public are MRSA. So keep a supply of Hibiclens liquid soap. It's good stuff, not harsh, and the chlorhexadine is great for killing anything. And not too expensive, either.
amoxicillin - good antibitioc for mild skin stuff, especially in kiddos. $4 list.
cephalexin - as above. $4 list. Cephalosporins, especially early-generation ones (cephalexin/Keflex is first-gen) have a rep for having a cross-reactivity allergy with people who have a penicillin allergy. Some of the PharmDs I know told me that they were able to trace back a good number of these early reactions by lot number to factories manufacturing cephalosporins where penicillins were previously manufactured. So take that for what it's worth.
cipro - as mentioned above, good for anthrax. Otherwise, not a usual choice for me on skin infections. So look for those characteristic black nasty eschars. $4 list.
Bactrim (trimethoprim/sulfamethoxazole) - my usual go-to when it comes to most skin things like abscesses and cellulitis. Also on the $4 list.
Augmentin is also a great skin antibiotic, it's just amoxicillin with added clavulonic acid. Good stuff, but not cheap, really. Although amox/clav is available generic, just not cheap cheap. Diarrhea almost guaranteed.
Avelox - same class as Cipro, new generation, good good stuff. Expensive.
doxycycline - great skin antibiotic, especially for those repetitive multiple nodular abscesses in the armpits, groin, under breasts, etc. This is usually something called hidradenitis suppurativa, and doxy works extremely well on it. Used to be on the $4 list - now it's something like $92.
clindamycin - very good at killing MRSA, not too cheap, probably around $60 or so. Lots of diarrhea with this one. Clostridium difficile is a real risk, especially if using after another antibiotic failure or with another antibiotic. Google it.
Lung infections - keep in mind, the vast vast VAST majority of bronchial lung infections in America are VIRAL. Antibiotics may make you feel like you're doing something, may help prevent secondary bacterial infections (though these are mostly in asthmatics, uncontrolled diabetics, CHF and COPD), but really, lots of rest, keeping warm, chicken soup, plenty of fluids and hacking all that **** out of your lungs along with symptomatic therapy is going to help much more in the longrun than antibiotics.
amoxicillin or cephalexin - these are used mostly just to give people an antibiotic so they think they got their money's worth from an office visit/urgent care/ER for lungs, honestly. See above.
Augmentin (amoxicillin/clavulonic acid) - better for a true bacterial lung infection
Cipro/Avelox/Levaquin - Cipro is cheap, but not a good solo choice for a lung infection. Google Jim Henson. The others are great, but expensive. These are the three main meds in the fluoroquinolone class.
Zithromax (azithromycin) - pretty good, covers atypical pneumonias like Mycoplasma, but not too expensive - around $20 or so, I think. Newer generation of erethromycin, clarithromycin, etc. Probably an option for skin stuff, too, but won't usually kill MRSA.
doxy - also pretty good for pneumonia
clindamycin - also good, not first choice mainly due to diarrhea and C.diff risk.
STDs -
chlamydia (the clap) - single 1000mg dose of Zithromax (azithromycin)
gonorrhea - single dose injectible Rocephin. Harder to get.
PID - Pelvic Inflammtory Disease - look up the "PID Shuffle". Doxycycline or Augmentin. AFTER both of the above.
Trichomonas - Flagyl
Yeast - besides OTC (over the counter) remedies, a single largish dose of diflucan usually works. Lots of women need this after taking almost any antibiotic for any other reason.
UTIs -
Roll your dice, pick one.
amoxicillin or cephalexin - this is mainly in little girls. Not first choice in adults.
Cipro
Bactrim
Macrobid (nitrofurantoin)
Levaquin (but not Avelox)
GI infections - I would be very very hesitant to use antibiotics on any acute diarrhea, i.e., food poisoning, etc. VERY. If someone has a history of Crohn's, diverticulitis, colitis, etc., then maybe. But if you do things wrong, you can kill someone.
Cipro/Flagyl is a good combo for diverticulitis. You can substitute Levaquin for the Cipro if you have it. Augmentin is a possibility, but not my first choice. I saw a guy this week whose life was saved because someone put him on Cipro thinking he had a bad gallbladder... 5 days later when I found his ruptured appendix, the Cipro had kept things *somewhat* at bay and likely kept him alive. But in some cases (certain E.coli infections, for instance), it can hasten your death. GI infections are not ones to just throw antibiotics at.
Water-borne parasites like giardia get Flagyl.
Ears/Throat - Most throat infections aren't strep, they're viral. Just like lungs. But if you have to have something to make you think you're treating it, here are some options. For ears, I go in this order until it stops working on kids, then move to the next on the list - usually. Throats are pretty similar progression.
amoxicillin or cephalexin
Augmentin
Bactrim
Zithromax
Omnicef (cefdinir) - expensive, and turns your poo red. I mean RED. It's not bleeding, it's the antibiotic.
Dental -
amoxicillin or cephalexin
Augmentin
Bactrim
Clindamycin
doxy
I hope this is somewhat helpful. Lots of inexpensive meds that cover several areas you can keep, but the bottom line is, to really cover your bases you'd have to stock a whole room. lol Quick and dirty list for me would be multiple bottles of Bactrim, amoxicillin and some Zpacks (Zithromax). That's a good start that will keep your costs down and cover a whole whole bunch of the most common stuff.
WOW really great! Thanks for that list TRidiot. What a nice thing for you to do.
I don't know how you get your doc to write those prescriptions though if your not sick? Do you just walk in and say hey doc, I'm stockpiling meds can you write these up for me? I'm pretty sure my doctor wouldn't do that and if she did she'd be inputting in her computer records for the world to know what I'm doing.
I don't know how you get your doc to write those prescriptions though if your not sick? Do you just walk in and say hey doc, I'm stockpiling meds can you write these up for me? I'm pretty sure my doctor wouldn't do that and if she did she'd be inputting in her computer records for the world to know what I'm doing.
Well, of course there's going to be a record of it. It's not illegal, and it's not unethical, either. I know lots of people who keep certain medications on hand "just in case" or have a prescription on file at the pharmacy for certain things. Things like steroids for people with conditions that respond to those, pain medicines, that kinda stuff.
It all depends on how proactive you are with your health. If you only go see your doctor when you have something wrong, or when you absolutely have to because the office has refused your pharmacy's faxed refill requests until you have another office visit... then, yes, your practitioner will likely say no. However... if you are a person who regularly sees your physician, asks appropriate questions and wants to understand how things work, works together with your healthcare team in a proactive manner, and has a good relationship with your doctor, it's possible. It's a trust issue.
If I know you are putting together an emergency kit, it will make a difference. We'll have to have a talk about appropriate use of antibiotics only in certain situations. About not giving these medications to other people outside you or your family (assuming you and your practitioner have discussed even sharing within the immediate family). There are lots of factors. If you bring it up (in the proper manner, like I am talking about) and your provider says no, then pushing the issue isn't going to help, it's only going to make you look more like a whack-job.
I wouldn't do it for all of my patients. I wouldn't do it for MOST patients. But there are a very few people I have a good enough relationship with, whom I believe can follow proper instructions and are trustworthy to do what they say they will do. Honestly, most patients lie. Yes... most patients lie. Even about small, unimportant stuff. And most people don't think that we know they lie, but the fact is, we do, we just don't always push the issue. Whatever you do, don't keep "leftover" antibiotics, for lots of reasons. One, you can really mess things up if you're trying to self-doctor and don't know what you're doing. Another, the risk of developing drug-resistant infections from not following directions is a very real thing. Lastly, if your provider finds out, you've lost all trust. Period. I have tried and tried and tried and tried and tried to politely educate some people about antibiotic use, but when they keep interrupting me with excuses and reasons and justifications and blah blah blah, I realize it's just going in one ear and out the other... they don't believe me, which means they don't respect my opinion, so why seek out my opinion in the first damn place? Well... the bottom line is, it's because they need my signature and that's all. Just a script, so they can go about their business thinking they know better than me about it. So, why waste my breath, why waste my time, and why bother? So I don't.
Anyways... that's just some thoughts.
<edit> And I'm talking about keeping a single bottle of a couple of meds around... NOT about enough to stock a mini-pharmacy. No one is going to contribute to that, honestly.
It all depends on how proactive you are with your health. If you only go see your doctor when you have something wrong, or when you absolutely have to because the office has refused your pharmacy's faxed refill requests until you have another office visit... then, yes, your practitioner will likely say no. However... if you are a person who regularly sees your physician, asks appropriate questions and wants to understand how things work, works together with your healthcare team in a proactive manner, and has a good relationship with your doctor, it's possible. It's a trust issue.
If I know you are putting together an emergency kit, it will make a difference. We'll have to have a talk about appropriate use of antibiotics only in certain situations. About not giving these medications to other people outside you or your family (assuming you and your practitioner have discussed even sharing within the immediate family). There are lots of factors. If you bring it up (in the proper manner, like I am talking about) and your provider says no, then pushing the issue isn't going to help, it's only going to make you look more like a whack-job.
I wouldn't do it for all of my patients. I wouldn't do it for MOST patients. But there are a very few people I have a good enough relationship with, whom I believe can follow proper instructions and are trustworthy to do what they say they will do. Honestly, most patients lie. Yes... most patients lie. Even about small, unimportant stuff. And most people don't think that we know they lie, but the fact is, we do, we just don't always push the issue. Whatever you do, don't keep "leftover" antibiotics, for lots of reasons. One, you can really mess things up if you're trying to self-doctor and don't know what you're doing. Another, the risk of developing drug-resistant infections from not following directions is a very real thing. Lastly, if your provider finds out, you've lost all trust. Period. I have tried and tried and tried and tried and tried to politely educate some people about antibiotic use, but when they keep interrupting me with excuses and reasons and justifications and blah blah blah, I realize it's just going in one ear and out the other... they don't believe me, which means they don't respect my opinion, so why seek out my opinion in the first damn place? Well... the bottom line is, it's because they need my signature and that's all. Just a script, so they can go about their business thinking they know better than me about it. So, why waste my breath, why waste my time, and why bother? So I don't.
Anyways... that's just some thoughts.
<edit> And I'm talking about keeping a single bottle of a couple of meds around... NOT about enough to stock a mini-pharmacy. No one is going to contribute to that, honestly.
... im one of those people... LOL I only go to the doc when something is wrong with me because fortunately for me I don't have any serious health issues that require me to be on any medication. My worst afflictions is g.e.r.d and I used to take meds for it but got off them with acv. My husband goes regularly though for blood pressure check ups etc and I go with him, so we have a good relationship with the doc.
I get what your saying about people not listening to you. Im no doctor of course but I try to convince my friends/fam etc that they really don't need to go get an antibiotic for every little sniffle <-- seriously I know people that think if they sneeze they need a zpack or something.
I get what your saying about people not listening to you. Im no doctor of course but I try to convince my friends/fam etc that they really don't need to go get an antibiotic for every little sniffle <-- seriously I know people that think if they sneeze they need a zpack or something.
I hear ya loud and clear. I am done trying to convince anybody but GC that they won't be doing major surgeries, in fact most wounds will be better off if they aren't sutured, if you don't know what you are doing. People look at me like I've lost my friggin' mind. Same thing with antibiotics. They think any antibiotic they can get their hands on will treat anything. Gram-negative?? Gram-positive?? Virus?? Bacteria?? What's the difference? Ehhh, who cares?? People scare the beejeebus outta me ...
You remember the lady on here who was a Pharm Tech and Herbalist telling folks all kinds of sketchy stuff ... Somebody finally called her out (can't remember who right off the top of my head but they had the "paper" and education to back their position up lol) and she got pissed ...
The most important thing anybody can know, when the SHTF, is that they don't know everything ... and that's okay ... you can do so much more damage pretending to yourself you know what you are doing than admitting that maybe, just maybe, you should leave something alone (just supply supportive care) and let nature take it's course ...
this Xs a million! I even let my kids burn a low fever before any intervention on my part. Our bodies are amazingly adept at healing themselves if people will just allow them to work. Obviously medical care is needed in many situations but not every little thing!
I knew this chick that ( I am not kidding here) if her or her kid fell down and scraped their knee would go to the Emergency room or urgent care to get checked out. Every little bump and bruise was a big theatrical drama fest. I wonder who doctors hate more... people who 'sort of' take their advice questioning all the way or hypos who know they are dying because they have a paper cut.
Subprep, I'm with you. I have gone to the doctor twice in the past 5 years. Both were for DHS required medical evaluations. However, I have to take my son in for all of his wellness checks and have established a really good report with my doctor. I'm pretty sure she likes me & she knows I'm not going to do anything careless. I still hate asking her for scripts....
tRidiot, that was an awesome abx guide. Sorry you had to do it twice. That really sucks. I'm going to print it out & stuff it in my med box.
tRidiot, that was an awesome abx guide. Sorry you had to do it twice. That really sucks. I'm going to print it out & stuff it in my med box.
^^^^^THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS!!!!!
I spend a lot of time educating people that FEVER IS A GOOD THING!!!!
Fever means your body is working the way it should to fight infection.
A lot of pediatricians these days are saying don't even treat a fever until it becomes dangerous, which is like 106F.
We don't treat fever because temp itself is dangerous (in most instances), we treat it because it makes us feel yucky. We're treating symptoms.
Febrile seizures aren't usually even dangerous... unless they're repetitive and the kid isn't waking up in-between.
Fever helps fight illness by making an inhospitable environment for bacteria and viruses, which slows their reproduction and spread.
Fever helps our white blood cells fight infection by speeding up chemical reactions used to attack bacteria.
When we use Tylenol or ibuprofen to bring down a fever, we're actually working AGAINST our body's immune system!
So many people rush right to the ER for every little thing, and subprep's right... 90% of it is not even a problem, much less an emergency.
yup! I'm another one for letting the fever go if no other symptoms are present. 103 is my arbitrary cut off since he's just a little over a year. Thankfully, we've only had that once.
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