What the Hell?

[1shot(bob)]

I firmly believe that most LEOs will handle a CCW in the correct way. Some, however, will not. Those are the ones that scare me.

I was once pulled over for speeding (yeah, that makes me a criminal). While retrieving my license the Deputy noticed my CCP and asked me whether or not I was carrying. I was not and told him so. He asked me twice more before he walked away. When he returned he asked again before handing me the ticket. He was agitated when I again said no and he asked if I was sure. I guess his assumption was that I had gone to get it while he was doing his paperwork. He handles it incorrectly in my opinion.

BTW, so did the officer in Tahlequah.

 

[GlockCop]

OK. some of you dont like cops...thats fine. I treat every stop the same when a CCL is produced. I ask if they are armed at the time. If they are thats fine. I figure they have gone through a close background check in order to obtain that CCL. So I treat them with the respect you speak of. I have never disarmed a legal CCL before and dont plan too. HOWEVER there are some out there that do it on a routine basis. Why? When I ask they say its for everyones safety. Well thats each officers opinion. It is NOT universally held. Our policy? Up to the individual Trooper. Our training encourages to bring every contact back to your unit. I dont because I like them up front where I can see whats going on. So guys it depends on the individual that stopped you that day. We are people just like you. Some may not like bikers, some may not like plumbers..etc. I give everyone the benefit of the doubt. I will always be professional though.

 

[BadgeBunny]

I firmly believe that most LEOs will handle a CCW in the correct way. Some, however, will not. Those are the ones that scare me.

I was once pulled over for speeding (yeah, that makes me a criminal). While retrieving my license the Deputy noticed my CCP and asked me whether or not I was carrying. I was not and told him so. He asked me twice more before he walked away. When he returned he asked again before handing me the ticket. He was agitated when I again said no and he asked if I was sure. I guess his assumption was that I had gone to get it while he was doing his paperwork. He handles it incorrectly in my opinion.

BTW, so did the officer in Tahlequah.

I understand, but that knife cuts both ways. I firmly believe that most civilians will not have any ill will toward an officer during a stop. Some, however, will not only have ill will, they will act on it. Those are the ones that scare me. At some point everyone needs to stop and take a collective deep breath but I don't see us as a society doing that either.

And I do feel ya ... I've been a criminal a time or two also. Sometimes not on purpose, but more often I knew exactly how fast I was going. I have been pulled over several times (more since I met GC than I ever was before when I was acting out) but never disarmed so I can't really say whether I would find it offensive. I will freely admit that I suppose it would depend on what all else was going on at the time.

Part of the problem is just the nature of a stop. There are no hard and fast rules and as we all know, officer discretion can be a real PITA ... What one person (cop or civilian) thinks is a perfectly acceptable routine for an officer some other person (civilian or cop) will find absolutely abhorrent.

I'm scared of everybody these days (and no, that is not sarcasm) so I can understand both an officer's apprehension as well as yours. The only constructive answer I have (and not it's not sarcasm) is to limit exposure to JBTs. The older I get the more I tend to fly under the radar best I can.

I do also agree that the officer in Talequah was inappropriate. WTF is wrong with people these days?

 

[BadgeBunny]

I know I'm new here and all, but I had to chime in on this, no ill intent meant, just stating my observations/opinion.

I just want to make the point that cops frequently do not follow any of the routine traffic ordinances. Some do, but the majority that I have seen do not. At least 15 cops live in my neighborhood, and probably 10-12 of them run the stop sign into the neighborhood daily, on average, in their patrol cars as well as private vehicles. I drive for my work all day, and I see the same thing all day long pertaining to cops not following traffic laws. I'm not saying I am perfect by ANY MEANS, and don't expect the cops to be either, but just don't want to agree with the assumption that cops never commit the same traffic violations that they use as an excuse to pull people over for "breaking the law". As you mention if you commit the examples you give you are not technically a law abiding citizen at that time, the same goes for the cops that do this on a daily basis. In my opinion, it doesn't speak one way or the other as to the person's true character based on minor traffic violations and cops should not automatically take away a persons weapon during a traffic stop because he broke the law of going 5MPH over or had a broken tail light and was "not a law abiding citizen."

I agree. Whether or not they are in uniform has no bearing on my statement at all. They don't follow the rules of the road then their supervising officer needs to know.

(And good Lord ... I LIVE with a cop -- and am quite fond of him -- but I wouldn't want 15 cops living in my neighborhood!! YIKES!!)

 

[1shot(bob)]

OK. some of you dont like cops...

Some of us don't like bad cops, and they are out there. Good cops that treat us like citizens and not suspects, we like.
I feel the same way about preachers, firemen, dog catchers, and . . . . well, people in general.

 

[BadgeBunny]

Some of us don't like bad cops, and they are out there. Good cops that treat us like citizens and not suspects, we like.
I feel the same way about preachers, firemen, dog catchers, and . . . . well, people in general.

LOL ... he is sleeping like a baby now. But I can tell you (and you can see from his post) that he basically agrees with you. I, on the other hand, think ya'll are both a little touched. I don't like anybody.

 

[jsl_pt]

I agree. Whether or not they are in uniform has no bearing on my statement at all. They don't follow the rules of the road then their supervising officer needs to know.

(And good Lord ... I LIVE with a cop -- and am quite fond of him -- but I wouldn't want 15 cops living in my neighborhood!! YIKES!!)

Yeah our neighborhood reminds me of the movie Copland with sylvester Stallone, we are right in the city limits border so that may be why we have lots of cops, makes the neighborhood feel safer. They did do a partial day with 2 hidden cops for catching people running the stopsign, they stayed busy the whole time and could have used more unmarked cars to write tickets, some cops were pulled over in their private cars . The whole neighborhood practically runs this thing, wish they would do another traffic watch here and bust some more.

Anyway to the original topic I would comply with whatever the officer wants to do obviously and would understand their point if view if they do want to disarm me, but I would just have to disagree that it would be the right thing to do after a minor traffic violation, the person told u they were carrying, and there is no other suspicious behavior.

 

[Lone Wolf '49]

You can't protect anyone if you're dead.

Michael Brown

Thank you, Michael. I honestly don't think, but being an ol' coot who knows little, anything else can be said other than your statement, but I haven't read everything here yet. I am beginning to wonder and question what people out this forum or that fact OSA have had quality training for their SDA permit. Now, having said that, yes, I will get flamed and so forth but, having had what "little" training I had AFTER I obtained my SDA permit (I received mine in March, 96, having applied for it on January 2, 96), I question what training some may or may not have had after they received their permits. No, I am not trying to flame anyone, just that the training I took upon my own over the years was very invaluable, after I received my permit. I learned far more than what is taught by the average SDA instructor in the courses I took AFTER I received my permit. I must say this and it may not be pertinent to this thread but the first thing after extensive gun safety that has always been impressed on me by quality instructors (advanced training, that is) is how to stay out of or diffuse the situation so that one does NOT have to pull the weapon. I don't know what else I can say but education in any field is pertinent.
Lone Wolf

 

[GunCrazy]

There seems to be some Cop Bashing going on in this thread. Michael Brown will be along shortly to hand out some ***** slaps. Cop Bashing will not be tolerated even if it is the truth.

 

[Michael Brown]

Some of us don't like bad cops, and they are out there. Good cops that treat us like citizens and not suspects, we like.
I feel the same way about preachers, firemen, dog catchers, and . . . . well, people in general.

Yet somehow, you only seem to mention the bad ones and their decisions or perceived transgressions and I haven't noticed a whole lot of posts from you about bad preachers, firemen, or dog catchers.........

Michael Brown