Zimmerman Prosecutor wants to add lesser charges, including child abuse....

[BIG_MIKE2005]

That's what he knew about Martin. The CCW permit is not a badge. WTF would you follow someone you thought was up to no good, on drugs, and had his hand in his waistband (i.e. as if he had a weapon)?

That is beyond stupid and when you're carrying a firearm, it's at least criminally negligent because it means you're looking for trouble.

As to why Martin "attacked" Zimmerman - you're citing only Zimmerman's testimony and not just the facts from a neutral prospective.

I'd wager that if you were walking through your neighborhood to your house at night and an armed 28 year old Hispanic male started following you that you'd at least take some defensive measures (and you're not a 17 year old unarmed kid).

I'm here to tell you right now, if you are suspect walking through my grandma's neighborhood she will follow your ass while on the phone with the police also. Does that give someone the right to attack her, absolutely not. Same situation here and how did Martin know Zimmerman had his gun? So your argument is that Martin knew he was armed & still decided to fight Zimmerman? That is retarded at best.

And I'm not only sighting Zimmerman's testimony, I'm citing all the evidence which concludes that Zimmerman was NOT the aggressor. Why is that so hard for people to swallow?

And if I saw a armed man following me & I knew for a FACT he was armed I'd run the hell in the other direction, not attempt to fight him. So there is yet another theory out the window. Come on now, apply some logic & common sense.

 

[ez bake]

I'm here to tell you right now, if you are suspect walking through my grandma's neighborhood she will follow your ass while on the phone with the police also. Does that give someone the right to attack her, absolutely not. Same situation here and how did Martin know Zimmerman had his gun? So your argument is that Martin knew he was armed & still decided to fight Zimmerman? That is retarded at best.

And I'm not only sighting Zimmerman's testimony, I'm citing all the evidence which concludes that Zimmerman was NOT the aggressor. Why is that so hard for people to swallow?

And if I saw a armed man following me & I knew for a FACT he was armed I'd run the hell in the other direction, not attempt to fight him. So there is yet another theory out the window. Come on now, apply some logic & common sense.

I don't know that Martin knew Zimmerman had his gun, but that doesn't negate the fact that Zimmerman is a 28 year old Hispanic male out at night following Martin who was going to his own house in his own neighborhood. I'm going to go out on a limb and assume that your grandma isn't as threatening as Zimmerman is to a 17 year old kid. Your grandma probably doesn't have a previous criminal history with assaulting officers and resisting arrest either.

What evidence (other than Zimmerman's testimony) suggests that Zimmerman wasn't the aggressor? I'd love to see what else you're taking into consideration aside from Zimmerman's testimony.

Just because you (a full grown man) would have done something - that doesn't throw any theories about how a 17 year old (or anyone else for that matter) would act - and you yourself suggested Martin didn't know Zimmerman was armed, so why then wouldn't he take on someone who was following him around in the dark?

Logic and common sense says that an armed 28 year old Hispanic male with a criminal history (cleaned up by his daddy the judge) and a restraining order from his ex-fiance is not known for making the best of decisions (and with a history of violence, he's not known for being peaceful), so I tend to question his version of what happened.

What I don't get is why everyone gets all up in arms to defend Zimmerman? He did something stupid (multiple people in this thread have said he was stupid by getting out of the car in the first place), he has a criminal history (specifically with aggression against police officers), he has a restraining order from his ex, his own statements to the 911 dispatcher indicated that he suspected Martin of being up to no good, being on drugs, and reaching into his waistband (as if he had a weapon), and yet he's outside following the guy around (who happens to be in his own neighborhood heading to his own house - Martin hasn't even been suspected of doing anything wrong in this case prior to the confrontation with Zimmerman).

How does any of that scream "Get behind this guy, he's in the right"?

 

[SMS]

What I don't get is why everyone gets all up in arms to defend Zimmerman? ...How does any of that scream "Get behind this guy, he's in the right"?

Many of us aren't defending Zimmerman. We are arguing for the proper and unbiased application of law either for or against Zimmerman.

I think he was a overzealous dim bulb, and he could be a wife beater and drug abuser but none of that affects the law in regards to the actual physical encounter that resulted in Martin's death.

Once the fight became physical the only facts that matter is who physically initiated the fight and did GZ have reasonable reason to fear for his life once that fight was on.

Doesn't matter what he was doing before the fight. Doesn't matter what his record is, what Martin's record was nor what color either of them are.

 

[twoguns?]

Academy is open and they gots craploads of ammo ...all kinds and sizes..kinda like a smorgazboard

.prices about average

.OH kangaroo court-waste of taxpayers $$$$

 

[twoguns?]

So EZ what do you think of O'Mara's closing so far? You still think you'd convict on manslaughter?



Yeah right. An unarmed 17 year old kid is going to knowingly take on a 28 year old armed Hispanic male.

You havent spent much time around 17 year olds........theyre invincible, xpecially if theyre IN the thuglife...yeaha

 

[ez bake]

Many of us aren't defending Zimmerman. We are arguing for the proper and unbiased application of law either for or against Zimmerman.

I think he was a overzealous dim bulb, and he could be a wife beater and drug abuser but none of that affects the law in regards to the actual physical encounter that resulted in Martin's death.

Once the fight became physical the only facts that matter is who physically initiated the fight and did GZ have reasonable reason to fear for his life once that fight was on.

Doesn't matter what he was doing before the fight. Doesn't matter what his record is, what Martin's record was nor what color either of them are.

I agree if you separate the fight initiation from Zimmerman's initiating (by getting out of the car and following someone at night). It seems like everyone on this message board was declaring that Ersland's two different situations (him getting shot at, and him then deciding to go outside and shoot at the fleeing suspects down a public street) were in fact, one situation because adrenalin, etc are pumping and it was only the span of a few minutes. If that is the case then (and Martin was acting in either provocation or self-defense), then don't the same rules apply here?

If the Zimmerman/Martin case is two separate situations, then yes - Martin appears to have attacked Zimmerman (though unprovoked? That's where I question Zimmerman's history of violence/control). If Martin did so from being provoked, or in self-defense, then it's one situation that Zimmerman created and thus his negligence resulted in the death of someone who was either provoked or innocent of any wrong-doing and just defending himself.

We'll never know because the other side of this story can't be told. So I'm trying not to treat Zimmerman's side as if it's gospel in order to be unbiased in applying the law - i.e. "what does the evidence say?".

If the evidence contradicts Zimmerman's story in any way, then his character proves untrustworthy and his story clearly didn't go down the way he's saying it did. Otherwise, there isn't enough to convict him on anything serious like Manslaughter, but there seems to be enough evidence to show he made several stupid decisions - is that negligence to the point of being criminally negligent?

 

[n2sooners]

Many of us aren't defending Zimmerman. We are arguing for the proper and unbiased application of law either for or against Zimmerman.

I think he was a overzealous dim bulb, and he could be a wife beater and drug abuser but none of that affects the law in regards to the actual physical encounter that resulted in Martin's death.

Once the fight became physical the only facts that matter is who physically initiated the fight and did GZ have reasonable reason to fear for his life once that fight was on.

Doesn't matter what he was doing before the fight. Doesn't matter what his record is, what Martin's record was nor what color either of them are.

That's what I've argued all along. If there were evidence that Zimmerman initiated the contact then it would sway my opinion that he was guilty of assault and probably manslaughter. If there was evidence that the fight wasn't one sided then there could be doubt about Zimmerman fearing great bodily harm or death. But that evidence doesn't exist.

And the hind sight thing is BS. If Zimmerman had stayed in the car nothing may have happened. Or maybe Martin would have run into someone else and assaulted them. Maybe if Martin had gone home during that four minutes after Zimmerman lost track of him. Maybe Zimmerman could have just rolled down the window and asked Martin if he lived around there, or maybe Martin could have just asked Zimmerman what he wanted. But I don't buy Martin being that scared. Both weighed about the same and Martin had 3-6 inches on Zimmerman (you would think it would be easier to find definitive heights and weights but not so). Police estimated Martin at 6 feet tall and 160 pounds. The family said he was 6'2. Police had Zimmerman at 5'9 and a friend had him at 5'8. There is no weight in the police report on Zimmerman but his friend said he weighed about 170 pounds.

 

[n2sooners]

That's where I question Zimmerman's history of violence/control

Why do you always question Zimmerman's history of violence but not Martin's much more recent history of violence?

 

[ez bake]

That's what I've argued all along. If there were evidence that Zimmerman initiated the contact then it would sway my opinion that he was guilty of assault and probably manslaughter. If there was evidence that the fight wasn't one sided then there could be doubt about Zimmerman fearing great bodily harm or death. But that evidence doesn't exist.

And the hind sight thing is BS. If Zimmerman had stayed in the car nothing may have happened. Or maybe Martin would have run into someone else and assaulted them. Maybe if Martin had gone home during that four minutes after Zimmerman lost track of him. Maybe Zimmerman could have just rolled down the window and asked Martin if he lived around there, or maybe Martin could have just asked Zimmerman what he wanted. But I don't buy Martin being that scared. Both weighed about the same and Martin had 3-6 inches on Zimmerman (you would think it would be easier to find definitive heights and weights but not so). Police estimated Martin at 6 feet tall and 160 pounds. The family said he was 6'2. Police had Zimmerman at 5'9 and a friend had him at 5'8. There is no weight in the police report on Zimmerman but his friend said he weighed about 170 pounds.

Not getting out of the car isn't hindsight - everyone on this message board knows better than to go looking for trouble if you happen to be carrying a firearm.

Aside from that one fact (and Zimmerman's statements that seemingly paint a very clear picture that he was in fact looking for trouble), I'm on Zimmerman's side.

 

[ez bake]

Why do you always question Zimmerman's history of violence but not Martin's much more recent history of violence?

I have considered Martin's history the entire time (it's up in one of my previous posts) - it's why I continue to say they both are at fault (unlike those who keep defending Zimmerman as if he's a saint).

Martin's history is school-yard fights, marijuana use, and school suspension. Zimmerman's is assaulting a police officer, resisting arrest, (potential drug-use?) and domestic violence resulting in a restraining order.

How many 17 year olds are suspended from school for fighting? How many have tried marijuana?

How many 28 year olds get to continue carrying a gun after police assault / resisting arrest / domestic / drug charges?