Best 1911

[HiredHand]

What do you mean by "pretty rough?" Please be specific. Also, what high end 1911s & sub $1000 guns have you owned to compare? Just curious.

A good friend of mine builds custom 1911s. I've spent about the last 10yrs hanging out at his shop watching, assisting and learning as he's built 1911s. I understand the difference between a gun that has been assembled versus a gun that has truly been hand fitted together. I've seen his customers bring in everything imaginable as far as 1911s go. Nothing is perfect.

So, when I say a gun is rough inside I mean it needs polishing, deburring, and correcting uneven wear inside.

 

[JD8]

A good friend of mine builds custom 1911s. I've spent about the last 10yrs hanging out at his shop watching, assisting and learning as he's built 1911s. I understand the difference between a gun that has been assembled versus a gun that has truly been hand fitted together. I've seen his customers bring in everything imaginable as far as 1911s go. Nothing is perfect.

So, when I say a gun is rough inside I mean it needs polishing, deburring, and correcting uneven wear inside.

I know 3 guys that build 1911s here in OK, can I play??!!

None of this addresses my point and I'm not asking you whether you can tell the difference between a custom gun or production. You said that Norinco's small parts suck, well that's not true, especially in contrast to the MIM in guns you see today. IF you had correctly spoke I THINK you might mean that the machining might be a little rough on the frame and slide? Heck, all $400 1911s are pretty darn rough from my experiences. Small parts are great though, for a $350 gun that is. Sure they look like they were machined with a butterknife on some parts of the frame, but they function really well. Many custom builders used them as base guns back in the day.

 

[HiredHand]

I know 3 guys that build 1911s here in OK, can I play??!!

None of this addresses my point and I'm not asking you whether you can tell the difference between a custom gun or production. You said that Norinco's small parts suck, well that's not true, especially in contrast to the MIM in guns you see today. IF you had correctly spoke I THINK you might mean that the machining might be a little rough on the frame and slide? Heck, all $400 1911s are pretty darn rough from my experiences. Small parts are great though, for a $350 gun that is. Sure they look like they were machined with a butterknife on some parts of the frame, but they function really well. Many custom builders used them as base guns back in the day.

Seriously, rough machining is okay but MIM is bad? I never said anything about MIM vs tool steel. I never said anything about expensive being better either. I've seen a Norinco built into a very nice custom 1911.

Anyway have a nice day playing with yourself.

 

[Traxxis]

From talking to the smith's at Wilson and Nighthawk and a local 1911 "master", they see the MIM outcry more as hype than anything. Critical parts I can see, some of the others prolly isn't a big deal though.

Idunno.

 

[JD8]

Seriously, rough machining is okay but MIM is bad? I never said anything about MIM vs tool steel. I never said anything about expensive being better either. I've seen a Norinco built into a very nice custom 1911.

Anyway have a nice day playing with yourself.

I dunno why this has turned into such a red herring.
You said.... the GUTS of a Norinco are junk and I was clarifying that the "guts" are better than most modern day small parts on guns $1000 and below. Yes, the rough machining that I've seen on Norincos, or rather on the two that I actually own, is in non-critical areas such as the dust cover.

From talking to the smith's at Wilson and Nighthawk and a local 1911 "master", they see the MIM outcry more as hype than anything. Critical parts I can see, some of the others prolly isn't a big deal though.

Interesting, which smiths said that? They aren't practicing what they preach if that's the case. Wilson pushes their bulletproof parts to no end. Nighthawk also uses the best parts available? In fact I can't think of one custom builder that chooses to use MIM. Personally, I've seen and experienced failures with MIM so I keep the variables to a minimum. Oh well, YMMV.

 

[Traxxis]

Interesting, which smiths said that? They aren't practicing what they preach if that's the case. Wilson pushes their bulletproof parts to no end. Nighthawk also uses the best parts available? In fact I can't think of one custom builder that chooses to use MIM. Personally, I've seen and experienced failures with MIM so I keep the variables to a minimum. Oh well, YMMV.

Marketing man. Look at the stir created here about MIM parts. Nobody would buy a firearm that has parts in it that "somebody they know knows a guy who's sister's husband's friend" had a failure with.

You may have experienced a failure, but I never have, and honestly don't know anybody who has ever had a failure contributed to MIM parts.

What part did you have break?

Don't get me wrong, tool steel is far superior to MIM, but I think often people make mountains out of molehills.

I think they reason he turned into a "herring" is because you often come off as arrogant and accusatory.

Tact...

YMMV.

 

[JD8]

Marketing man. Look at the stir created here about MIM parts. Nobody would buy a firearm that has parts in it that "somebody they know knows a guy who's sister's husband's friend" had a failure with.

Right, but builders were using tool steel parts before the internet. Methinks it has quite a bit than internet lore?

You may have experienced a failure, but I never have, and honestly don't know anybody who has ever had a failure contributed to MIM parts.

I have a sear from a older Wilson that split in two when Mike Bay @ Precision was doing a trigger job on an older Wilson built in 1998. TS broke off a Custom II I had. Saw a RIA puke at the range when a guy was showing me his new "carry gun." There was a guy here that posted his Kimber hammer here..

Kimber merely offered to send him a replacement I might add. That's first hand, but I DO know of a few reputable pistolsmiths here that could share a story or two.

Just out of curiosiy, which pistolsmith said what about MIM from your conversations?

I think they reason he turned into a "herring" is because you often come off as arrogant and accusatory.

Tact...

If someone takes themselves a bit too seriously (which can happen from time to time here ) and or has thin skin then I dunno what to say, as my original statement was neither accusatory nor was it arrogant. I THEN asked him to clarify in which it seemed like backpeddling to me. Sometimes people should just admit that they mispoke? JMO. YMMV.

 

[Traxxis]

lol, I guess.

Dang man, that's crazy. I guess I just don't hang with the right crowd, I honestly cannot think of a single time I've ever seen anything like the above other than on the boards. Like I said, I understand that MIM is not as strong as TS, was just stating that I've never experienced it.

Vic Tibbitts, Ron Phillip's son (Jared maybe?) and John where the one's we were bsing about it with. It all started by me asking "what makes your bulletproof parts special"... and even they said... "not much" and proceeded to tell me that MIM isn't as big of a deal as people make it out to be.

As for the thin skin, I dunno. Again, you do often come off as being hateful in your posts. Tact goes a long way. Even when somebody is back peddling, it's not always necessary to call him out on it.

He corrected my vocabulary in a thread, rather than being pissy about it, I just ignored it.

 

[Traxxis]

BTW: are we sure that hammer hasn't been bobbed???

 

[JD8]

Vic Tibbitts, Ron Phillip's son (Jared maybe?) and John where the one's we were bsing about it with. It all started by me asking "what makes your bulletproof parts special"... and even they said... "not much" and proceeded to tell me that MIM isn't as big of a deal as people make it out to be..

Now that's weird if not newsworthy. These guys use these parts on their best work and don't feel they are particularly special. Interesting.

As for the thin skin, I dunno. Again, you do often come off as being hateful in your posts. Tact goes a long way. Even when somebody is back peddling, it's not always necessary to call him out on it.

He corrected my vocabulary in a thread, rather than being pissy about it, I just ignored it.

I have a tough time sugar coating things but that's just me. Still, if someone takes what I said as hateful then I dunno what to say except... "lighten up francis." I made no personal remarks whatsoever, so there is no emotion on my part. I said he was incorrect and I think that was about as harsh as it got.