Marines Choose 9mm Glock 19 OVER .45 ACP 1911 for Special Operators

[HiredHand]

“The arguments boil down to this: The .45-caliber round is the bigger bullet, so it has the “knock down power” to neutralize any adversary with one shot; while pistols that fire 9mm rounds are generally more accurate and can carry more bullets. Where a bullet hits the human body is also a major factor on whether it inflicts a mortal wound.” - https://www.marinecorpstimes.com/ar...over-45-caliber-pistols-for-special-operators

The myths never seem to die. I think it was the excellent Primary and Secondary podcast (thanks YG for posting that) with DocGKR that I was listening to where he said that the DoD essentially ignored and buried the report on wound ballistics that he and a panel of experts wrote because it didn't fit with what their agenda.

 

[ldp4570]

It seems the military is looking at expanding ammo for the 9mm or a heavier slower bullet to some what mimic the 45ACP. As to which is better, like some other's on here I was on active duty when the word came down to trade off our 1911's for the 92FS/M9. Funny cause part of the testing was to find a pistol that would fit smaller hands, yet the M9 was bigger, and fully loaded heavier than the 1911A1 loaded, so big fail there! Is the M9 a good pistol? Yeah it is, and I think if the Glock had been more known at the time it may have given the M9 a run for the money.

 

[tomthebaker]

“The arguments boil down to this: The .45-caliber round is the bigger bullet, so it has the “knock down power” to neutralize any adversary with one shot; while pistols that fire 9mm rounds are generally more accurate and can carry more bullets. Where a bullet hits the human body is also a major factor on whether it inflicts a mortal wound.”

The myths never seem to die. I think it was the excellent Primary and Secondary podcast (thanks YG for posting that) with DocGKR that I was listening to where he said that the DoD essentially ignored and buried the report on wound ballistics that he and a panel of experts wrote because it didn't fit with what their agenda.

Do you have data to back up your assertion that 9mm pistols are more accurate that 45's, or that the round is inherently more accurate?

 

[HiredHand]

Do you have data to back up your assertion that 9mm pistols are more accurate that 45's, or that the round is inherently more accurate?

The quote was taken from the article posted in the OP. It is not my assertion that one caliber is more accurate that the other nor do I believe that 45 will knock down an adversary because it's a bigger bullet.

 

[filbert]

I don't think there has ever been a factory Colt that is as reliable and durable as the Glock. There is a reason why you can't buy a Curtis Mathis TV(dating myself, lol), a lot of other company made TV's better and cheaper, that is why Colt doesn't compete in the gun market, they have never modernized.

 

[druryj]

I don't think there has ever been a factory Colt that is as reliable and durable as the Glock. There is a reason why you can't buy a Curtis Mathis TV(dating myself, lol), a lot of other company made TV's better and cheaper, that is why Colt doesn't compete in the gun market, they have never modernized.

Dang.

Maybe you were on the Selection Panel then...the bigwigs in DC who apparently feel the same way. But I get it though, as I said in post #1, if anything can replace the grand old Colt 1911 as a Combat Handgun, the Glock 19 fits the bill pretty well. It's just sad to see the old warhorse go...

Despite all this, I for one will continue to carry my Colt Commander in .45ACP anyway.
(...and my Glock 43...and a few others)

 

[Shadowrider]

It wouldn't surprise me if they picked a Colt 1911 in 9mm. It's all about the palm greasing, the M9 proved that beyond any doubt.

If they are sticking with ball ammo they've taken one of their own arguments for change and thrown it right out with the baby's bath water which surprises me not in the slightest. I'm not hating on Glock, they make them in .45ACP, I'm just pointing that out.

 

[filbert]

Dang.

Maybe you were on the Selection Panel then...the bigwigs in DC who apparently feel the same way. But I get it though, as I said in post #1, if anything can replace the grand old Colt 1911 as a Combat Handgun, the Glock 19 fits the bill pretty well. It's just sad to see the old warhorse go...

Despite all this, I for one will continue to carry my Colt Commander in .45ACP anyway.
(...and my Glock 43...and a few others)

Yes, if I was on the Selection Panel I would have picked the Glock. I don't have anything with electric tubes or transistors in it, I don't fly in a propeller airplane, the wheels I ride on aren't made out of wood, I don't have a dial phone on the wall anymore, oh, I am not going to send a Marine into combat with a Colt SAA .45LC. Now I might have went with a .45ACP, but we are part of NATO, and they use the 9mm, so the caliber was a given. Colt would have went bankrupt a long time ago if it weren't for government contracts, the company is out dated and mismanaged, it needs to go the way of AMC Corporation.

 

[HiredHand]

The Roland Special. http://www.gunsandammo.com/network-topics/the-guns-network/the-roland-special-glock-19/

 

[druryj]

Yes, if I was on the Selection Panel I would have picked the Glock. I don't have anything with electric tubes or transistors in it, I don't fly in a propeller airplane, the wheels I ride on aren't made out of wood, I don't have a dial phone on the wall anymore, oh, I am not going to send a Marine into combat with a Colt SAA .45LC. Now I might have went with a .45ACP, but we are part of NATO, and they use the 9mm, so the caliber was a given. Colt would have went bankrupt a long time ago if it weren't for government contracts, the company is out dated and mismanaged, it needs to go the way of AMC Corporation.

1. Being part of NATO has very little bearing on this particular issue, we are talking about a relatively small number of Special Operations Troops here, not the whole US Military establishment.
2. Many actual Special Operators prefer the 1911 for a variety of reasons. But then from what you say above, I can only guess that you feel that you are more qualified and knowledgeable than these real Special Operators are and would take away their option of choosing either a Glock 19 or the 1911, which is what has really happened here. They had a choice; now they don't. Thanks.
3. The 1911 is still an excellent choice as a combat sidearm today, as is the Glock 19. However, comparing a 1911 to electric tubes, wooden wheels, and the like is really not very accurate; wouldn't you also agree?

Logistics, to include price, drove this decision. Plain and simple. Period.