Martin's dad to speak to congress

[jmike314]

You live in a different reality. Both jurors that spoke publicly claimed race was not involved nor did it ever come up in deliberations. It was an open and shut self defense case.

I gotta ask, who exactly is out there doing these things? (the bolded part)

This trial and everything that's been said and written about it. Gees...look at the threads in this forum. You've got Liberals and Conservatives all over the news talking about blacks this, whites that, and oh yeah the Hispanics too.
You honestly don't think there's been any racial conflict during the course of this trial? You don't think that all of this BS is a sign of a bigger problem?
You've got one group saying TM was profiled and singled out...another group saying TM was a criminal and deserved what he got...another group claiming reverse racism against whites even though GZ was Hispanic...another group prepping for all the civil unrest due to happen all across the country...blacks, whites, Hispanics...etc. etc. etc.

If you watched the whole trial unfold and participated in the threads of this forum and don't see a racial division among the citizens of this country, then I'm pretty sure it's you that is in a different reality.

Maybe something useful comes out of this group...a program that keeps kids away from drugs or teaches a bit more self-control so that confrontation is avoided...maybe specialized training made available to neighborhood watch programs.
I don't know. I'm just not willing to be closed-minded and dismiss the group without first seeing what they're about.

 

[aviator41]

How about the fact that as a country we are still way to overly controlled by racial stereotypes, racial discrimination, racial profiling...or just racism in general.
The trial should have been about self defense, but it wasn't. And that's not because of the media, left-wing, right-wing, or whatever...it's because the issues are real and they still exist very strongly in our society.
If you've never been on the receiving end of it, then it's a bit difficult to explain. Cases that blow up like this and ignite a division in this country take on a life all their own and the original issue can get buried or lost (i.e. SD, SYG, 2A).


Not a thing as long as you're styling while you do it.

Sorry, you're wrong. I've seen several posts of yours where you go out of your way to play the race card - and it's always to a fault, just like right now.

Fact is, the only people out there making this case about race are those with dark colored skin. you want so badly to claim this as racism when it's just not. it's been stated outright by those involved in the trial directly (like - say - jurors), those indirectly and bystanders. I have yet to see a non-white person decry race as the reason why TM got himself dead. to say so just tells the rest of the enlightened world that you - YOU - still have your blinders on to the integration of all races in society that you cry out for in all your posts.

It's already there man. It's been said before, race had nothing to do with it. this punk azz kid got himself shot for being a punk azz kid. Both parties might have been at fault, but RACE had NOTHING to do with it.

I find it interesting that in the same breath you can cry for equality among the races and then play the race card yourself. you lay out several legislative steps that were designed to bring equality to the races, but it's not enough, is it? exactly what do you want, cause frankly, there's no winning. The only way for a white guy (Cracker to use TM's words, or Latino in TZ's case) is to lay down and take the crap that's being served to us on a plate of of so-called racial inequality. the very moment a non-black hurts, on some way, a black, we're racist - never mind what the REAL reason behind the actions are. Wonder what would have happened if TZ would have used the 'n' word to describe TM.

Seems like you're only happy when you feel like your race is being held under the thumb of the rest of the world. Get over it. Never in the history of the WORLD has one nation made so many widely sweeping concessions to one race as the U.S. has made to bring equality to all of her citizens. It's never good enough though, is it. I know it's not perfect, but it's not like you portray it either.

Even your avatar is an angry black man!

 

[aeropb]

None of what you have just typed is relevant to the case. What you've described in saying one group says this and one group says that is called hearsay. The only two jurors that have spoken publicly about this case, including the only minority on the jury, claimed that race was not a factor and never came up in deliberations.

 

[Shadowrider]

This trial and everything that's been said and written about it. Gees...look at the threads in this forum. You've got Liberals and Conservatives all over the news talking about blacks this, whites that, and oh yeah the Hispanics too.
You honestly don't think there's been any racial conflict during the course of this trial? You don't think that all of this BS is a sign of a bigger problem?
You've got one group saying TM was profiled and singled out...another group saying TM was a criminal and deserved what he got...another group claiming reverse racism against whites even though GZ was Hispanic...another group prepping for all the civil unrest due to happen all across the country...blacks, whites, Hispanics...etc. etc. etc.

If you watched the whole trial unfold and participated in the threads of this forum and don't see a racial division among the citizens of this country, then I'm pretty sure it's you that is in a different reality.

Maybe something useful comes out of this group...a program that keeps kids away from drugs or teaches a bit more self-control so that confrontation is avoided...maybe specialized training made available to neighborhood watch programs.
I don't know. I'm just not willing to be closed-minded and dismiss the group without first seeing what they're about.

Oh I definitely agree with you on the racial division out there. There's no credible way of denying it! I was just trying to get to who the source of it is and it's cause. And it's not GZ, TM, his dad or even this trial...

 

[Fredkrueger100]

How about the fact that as a country we are still way to overly controlled by racial stereotypes, racial discrimination, racial profiling...or just racism in general.
The trial should have been about self defense, but it wasn't. And that's not because of the media, left-wing, right-wing, or whatever...it's because the issues are real and they still exist very strongly in our society.
If you've never been on the receiving end of it, then it's a bit difficult to explain. Cases that blow up like this and ignite a division in this country take on a life all their own and the original issue can get buried or lost (i.e. SD, SYG, 2A).


Not a thing as long as you're styling while you do it.

you are right that this country is still caught up with racism. But it isn't whites that are the major ones caught up with it like the 60's. Today there are a lot of blacks that are caught up with it. Blacks are the ones that are demanding that gz be charged with something. They cant except the fact that gz killed a black teen. And the president even had to come out making racial remarks. That is something that a president should never do. He and the media made this about race, not white people. Yes the media did make this about race. And blacks jumped to conclusions and said gz was white. Obama is half but identifies as being black. So when gz says he is hispanic than he is. But the media and some blacks say he is white to make it about race. Do you see him making comments for the slain 13 month old baby that was white and killed by black men. No one cares because it was a white. And that is pathetic. That is racism at its fullest. I do agree that it should have never been about race. It didn't have anything to do with it. But that isnt why I started this thread. We all have opinions and disagreements about this case. I dont like to argue and I wont do it anymore. I just think Martin meeting with this new black caucus is ridiculous. It should never be allowed. That is dragging the race issue on. And we dont need that anymore. The truth is there is racism on both sides. Whites and blacks.

 

[Glock]

Sorry, you're wrong. I've seen several posts of yours where you go out of your way to play the race card - and it's always to a fault, just like right now.

Fact is, the only people out there making this case about race are those with dark colored skin. you want so badly to claim this as racism when it's just not. it's been stated outright by those involved in the trial directly (like - say - jurors), those indirectly and bystanders. I have yet to see a non-white person decry race as the reason why TM got himself dead. to say so just tells the rest of the enlightened world that you - YOU - still have your blinders on to the integration of all races in society that you cry out for in all your posts.

It's already there man. It's been said before, race had nothing to do with it. this punk azz kid got himself shot for being a punk azz kid. Both parties might have been at fault, but RACE had NOTHING to do with it.

I find it interesting that in the same breath you can cry for equality among the races and then play the race card yourself. you lay out several legislative steps that were designed to bring equality to the races, but it's not enough, is it? exactly what do you want, cause frankly, there's no winning. The only way for a white guy (Cracker to use TM's words, or Latino in TZ's case) is to lay down and take the crap that's being served to us on a plate of of so-called racial inequality. the very moment a non-black hurts, on some way, a black, we're racist - never mind what the REAL reason behind the actions are. Wonder what would have happened if TZ would have used the 'n' word to describe TM.

Seems like you're only happy when you feel like your race is being held under the thumb of the rest of the world. Get over it. Never in the history of the WORLD has one nation made so many widely sweeping concessions to one race as the U.S. has made to bring equality to all of her citizens. It's never good enough though, is it. I know it's not perfect, but it's not like you portray it either.

Even your avatar is an angry black man!

I'm willing to bet you've never been racially discriminated against. There's really no legs on the stool of understanding the dynamic until you've had that extremely personal experience.

 

[Glock]

I miss the days when racial threads got shut down as quick as PD threads... It shows some seriously ignorant sides of our common interests.

 

[Glocktogo]

This trial and everything that's been said and written about it. Gees...look at the threads in this forum. You've got Liberals and Conservatives all over the news talking about blacks this, whites that, and oh yeah the Hispanics too.
You honestly don't think there's been any racial conflict during the course of this trial? You don't think that all of this BS is a sign of a bigger problem?
You've got one group saying TM was profiled and singled out...another group saying TM was a criminal and deserved what he got...another group claiming reverse racism against whites even though GZ was Hispanic...another group prepping for all the civil unrest due to happen all across the country...blacks, whites, Hispanics...etc. etc. etc.

If you watched the whole trial unfold and participated in the threads of this forum and don't see a racial division among the citizens of this country, then I'm pretty sure it's you that is in a different reality.

Maybe something useful comes out of this group...a program that keeps kids away from drugs or teaches a bit more self-control so that confrontation is avoided...maybe specialized training made available to neighborhood watch programs.
I don't know. I'm just not willing to be closed-minded and dismiss the group without first seeing what they're about.

http://firstread.nbcnews.com/_news/...zimmerman-verdict-nbc-newswsj-poll-finds?lite

In the wake of the George Zimmerman case, U.S. views of race relations have taken a hit, and one-third of Americans say his acquittal in the death of Trayvon Martin has shaken their confidence in the legal system, according to the latest NBC News/Wall Street Journal poll.

The survey found deep divisions on the overall subject of race, along both political and racial lines, as controversy over the verdict has swirled from city street corners to the Oval Office.

Fifty-two percent of adults questioned said race relations in the U.S. are “very good” or “fairly good,” down from more than 70 percent who said that in NBC/WSJ polls between 2009 and 2011.

Fifty-four percent agree with the statement that America is a nation where people are not judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character – down from 60 percent in 2009 and 2010.

That question was a reference to one of the most famous lines from Martin Luther King's "I have a dream" speech, delivered 50 years ago next month.

The poll was conducted after a Florida jury found Zimmerman, 29, who is of white and of Hispanic descent, not guilty of second-degree murder in the shooting death of Martin, 17, who was black. Zimmerman said he shot Martin, who was unarmed, in self-defense and his lawyers have said race played no role.

Related: NBC/WSJ poll: Faith in Washington hits a low

The case sparked debate over racial profiling and Stand Your Ground laws. After the verdict, protests sprang up several major cities and a group of clergy led by the Rev. Al Sharpton held vigils at federal building to demand the Justice Department ramp up a civil-rights investigation.

(Sharpton is the head of the National Action Network civil rights advocacy group and also hosts "Politics Nation" on MSNBC.)

Last week, President Barack Obama held a surprise press conference on the case in which he said African-Americans were viewing the verdict through the prism of being judged by their skin color.

“Those sets of experiences inform how the African-American community interprets what happened one night in Florida,” he said.

Read the poll here (.pdf)

Although some of the polling subjects were questioned before Obama declared that “Trayvon Martin could have been me 35 years ago,” the data reflected the racial divide he spoke about.

Just 19 percent of African-Americans and 46 percent of Democrats think Americans are judged by the content of their character rather than by their skin color.

By comparison, 54 percent of Latinos, 59 percent of whites and 65 percent of Republicans believe this.

Thirty-eight percent of African Americans say that race relations in the U.S. are good – versus 52 percent of whites and 60 percent of Latinos.

Asked directly about the Zimmerman trial, 32 percent of all adults say it decreased their confidence in the U.S. legal system, 17 percent say it increased their confidence and 48 percent say it had no effect.

Those numbers once again show a gap by race and party: 71 percent of African-Americans and 48 percent of Democrats say the trial decreased their confidence in the legal system -- compared to 35 percent of Latinos, 24 percent of whites and just 13 percent of Republicans.

“This is about as polarizing as it gets,” says Democratic pollster Jay Campbell, who helped conduct the poll with Republican pollster Bill McInturff.

The NBC/WSJ poll was conducted July 17-21 of 1,000 adults (including 300 cell phone-only respondents), and it has an overall margin of error of plus-minus 3.1 percentage points.

The Zimmerman verdict based on the law cannot be wholly responsible for this drop. Polls on race relations were at an all time high when Obama was elected in 2008. So why the drop since then? We have a black president, a black chief of staff, a black attorney general, a female "white Hispanic" on the Supreme Court, etc. Why is it getting worse?

I'll tell you why. It's because these people are using their race to color their decisions. The pendulum has swun too far in the opposite direction. White guilt is routinely exploited and when something doesn't go the way they've pre-determined it should, it MUST be because of race. WTF???

We can beat each other over the head until no one trusts anyone. Until we put the race industry on notice that it has outlived it's usefulness and it's time we actually practiced MLK's dream, it will never get better.

 

[jmike314]

Sorry, you're wrong. I've seen several posts of yours where you go out of your way to play the race card - and it's always to a fault, just like right now.

Fact is, the only people out there making this case about race are those with dark colored skin. you want so badly to claim this as racism when it's just not. it's been stated outright by those involved in the trial directly (like - say - jurors), those indirectly and bystanders. I have yet to see a non-white person decry race as the reason why TM got himself dead. to say so just tells the rest of the enlightened world that you - YOU - still have your blinders on to the integration of all races in society that you cry out for in all your posts.

It's already there man. It's been said before, race had nothing to do with it. this punk azz kid got himself shot for being a punk azz kid. Both parties might have been at fault, but RACE had NOTHING to do with it.

I find it interesting that in the same breath you can cry for equality among the races and then play the race card yourself. you lay out several legislative steps that were designed to bring equality to the races, but it's not enough, is it? exactly what do you want, cause frankly, there's no winning. The only way for a white guy (Cracker to use TM's words, or Latino in TZ's case) is to lay down and take the crap that's being served to us on a plate of of so-called racial inequality. the very moment a non-black hurts, on some way, a black, we're racist - never mind what the REAL reason behind the actions are. Wonder what would have happened if TZ would have used the 'n' word to describe TM.

Seems like you're only happy when you feel like your race is being held under the thumb of the rest of the world. Get over it. Never in the history of the WORLD has one nation made so many widely sweeping concessions to one race as the U.S. has made to bring equality to all of her citizens. It's never good enough though, is it. I know it's not perfect, but it's not like you portray it either.

Even your avatar is an angry black man!

First...you misunderstand my post. I'm not arguing the trial itself but all of the crap surrounding it. Race was not played out in the court room but on TV, the radio, in homes, and forums like this.

As for the rest of your crap.....
I have never once chosen a side in this trial...stating that both sides were foolish and inappropriate resulting in the death of one of them. I never once said GZ was guilty or should have been found guilty. I never once said TM was innocent or without wrongdoing. Go back and read my posts and you'll see. And while you're doing that, please let me know where I've played the race card. Please, please, please show me that. Show me where I've ever said the blacks deserve something because they're black. Several times I've pointed out issues that seem to elude closed minded individuals that think minorities have had it so good here in America for so long. I'm sorry if you were unaware of some of the history of our country or maybe that you didn't care about it.

When I can read thread after thread about "blacks" do this and "blacks" think this and "blacks" are like this...then yeah, some people need to be corrected.
You made comments about the Caucus without even knowing what it stood for or what they hoped to accomplish.
You made comments about the UNCF without knowing what it even is.
You talk about scholarships for white kids being unheard of but yet they exist.
You, sir, make judgements without educating yourself on the argument at hand.

Are the legislative steps enough to bring equality to the races? You tell me. Are the races equal? Why were those legislative steps even necessary? Answer me that.
Organization like the NAACP, UNCF, historically black universities, affirmative action, and others of the like were founded and established during a time when there was a vast imbalance of equality in this country. Personally, I would rather that they were never necessary in the first place...but that wasn't the case.

Please explain to me what crap is being served up to you that you have to lay down and take. Did I miss something? How am I affecting how you live? Again go back and read my posts. I've stated openly that racists come in all shapes, sizes, and colors. And as far as name-calling goes..."cracker" is not the same as "the-N-word". It takes a small person to draw that comparison as equal. How many times have you been called "cracker" in your life and how did it make you feel? Be honest.

I promise you I'm not under any thumb. I've worked my a$$ off for everything I've gotten. That's how I was raised. My family has never taken a handout and believe it or not, we've all managed to remain criminal free. We all have jobs and are damn good at them...not because of AA, but because we're better at it. There's nothing for me to get over. Maybe you need to get over the mindset that you are somehow being forced into something against your will. The US has not made concessions...it made LAWS...and it made a lot of them. You're right...more than any other nation in the world. But why? Why did they have to write so many laws? In 1965 legislation was passed to end voter discrimination and allow voting to people that were prevented from doing so...a right given by the Constitution 100 years earlier. What sense does that make? A law that allows you to use rights that you were already afforded as a citizen of this country.

I would love it...simply love it if everybody treated everybody else as an equal. Love it if color, creed, or socioeconomic status played no part in the decision we make about others.
But I turn on the TV and hear nothing but conflict over a black teen being killed because he was black and not because of self-defense. I open up a thread in the gun forum about a dead teenagers father speaking before a committee organized by black men and read replies to the extent that it's a waste, and another useless tool compared to the likes of the UNCF. And I realize that this is the reality in which we live. I don't agree with everything that's done in the white community. Hell, I don't agree with everything that's done in the black community...Asian & Hispanic communities included. I may be guilty of posting constant reminders that minorities didn't always have it so good...but only when someone like you fails to remember it. I guess that makes us both part of the problem.

And my avatar? Please...that's pathetic. If you think that I'm an angry black man then you really need to get out of the house more often.

 

[cjjtulsa]

I'm willing to bet you've never been racially discriminated against. There's really no legs on the stool of understanding the dynamic until you've had that extremely personal experience.

"Until you......you wouldn't understand". And by this statement, no white person has ever been discriminated against. Good old white guilt ********. So what constitutes "discrimination"? Certainly not the "white boy" comments I - and many other whites - have endured by blacks, or the intentionally racist remarks made about whites in front of my wife and I by a half-dozen Latino pricks. Nahhh. They were just using "descriptors". And most certainly not the rep for a school telling me point blank that I'd have a hard time getting hired in a certain industry because of my race.

"We've come a long way, but we have a long way to go". "Until you white boys experience......." Starting to see the finish line yet, white boy?