What is this thing you call facts?
- Status
What is this thing you call facts?
An uncomfortable truth that doesn't rely on emotion.....
Check the stats posted, also stats by our very own FBI....
Arrest/criminal activity doesn't always follow the narrative some would like.
Interesting concept
Were the middle children of history, man. No purpose or place. We have no Great War. No Great Depression. Our Great Wars a spiritual war our Great Depression is our lives. Weve all been raised on television to believe that one day wed all be millionaires, and movie gods, and rock stars. But we wont. And were slowly learning that fact. And were very, very pissed off.
― Chuck Palahniuk, Fight Club
Or the evidence was not there to convict or, dare I say, the evidence supported lawful self defense.
**** yes!
Not disputing those numbers at all. If you take the number of arrests for a particular race per 100,000 of that race...then, yes...those graphs show a distinct difference. And they should...whites make up 73% of the US population and blacks only 13%.
The prison statistics in previous posts were given as a "right now" kind of number (not over the course of many years), so I chose to use an annual breakdown of criminal arrests.
My numbers are based upon the total number of all arrests of the entire American population broken down by race.
I used the FBI statistics from 2011.
But since you posted the DOJ numbers from 2009 we can use those too for comparison (I'm looking at page 2 of the document you posted).
FBI 2011:
Total Arrests = 9,499,725
White = 6,578,133 (69.2%)
Black = 2,697,539 (28.4%)
DOJ 2009:
Total Arrests = 13,689,220
White = 9,504,860 (69.4%)
Black = 3,831,590 (28.0%)
There's my 70/30 breakdown. For all arrests made roughly 70% are white and roughly 30% are black.
Further...looking at the total number of arrests by type of crime indicates that whites were responsible for committing more of each type of crime than blacks, with the exceptions of robbery & gambling (murder is pretty much dead even).
The Federal Bureau of Prisons states the population breakdown for race as follows:
Total Population = 219,087
White = 130,414 (59.5%)
Black = 81,268 (37.1%)
So, the 70% of arrests made makes up roughly 60% of prison population, while the 30% makes up roughly 40%.
You bet there's a problem. I thought we agreed on at least that much. There is definitely a problem and I am definitely not blind to it. Maybe your vision is a bit fuzzy.
I used arrest numbers in my previous post just as you did here and I do not believe I ever indicated that the collector's of this data were racist in any way. Arrests were made and this is how it breaks down.
I made sure to provide links to my sources this time as well so that you don't think I made them up.
So...
If you look at arrests by race per 100,000 of that race, then you could deduce that there is a serious problem with crime in the black community since a higher percentage of that population commits crimes.
By the same token - if you look at arrests by race per the entire American population, it could be suggested that there is a pretty serious problem within the white community as that group commits most of the crimes.
Or we could just agree that bad people, stupid people, confused people, evil people, people that make mistakes, people that caught a bad break, or whatever come in all colors, shapes, sizes, classes, and backgrounds.
You finally got it right:
That's right. you're absolutely correct. there is a serious problem.
just for arguments sake, lets take your numbers and assume they are accurate:
69.2% of the arrests were white
28.4% of the arrests were black.
during that year,
72.4% of the population of the U.S. was white.
12.6% of the population of the U.S. was black.
ratio of white population to white arrest: 0.955801 to 1
ratio of black population to black arrest: 2.253968 to 1
12.6 percent of the population is responsible for 28.4% of the crime. hmm..... the white population is responsible for 'its part' no doubt. just a little under what it's population percentage is. All races have their share of 'real winners' - Just watch Jerry Springer, LOL. why aren't the numbers the same for the black population of America? Seems to me they should be. But they're not. never have been. It's getting better, but it's not there. not by a long shot.
you would think that if whites make up 70% of the population, they'd be responsible for 70% of the crime (and roughly, they are) and since
blacks make up 12% of the population, they're responsible for 12% of the crime - but they're responsible for more than TWICE that much crime.
Your argument would be like saying "more zebra die in Oklahoma per year that Whitetail Deer, based on percentage of their respective populations" - well no shiznat. there's maybe 4 zebra in the entire state. kill one and you've wiped out 25% of the states population. what percentage of the deer population is "one deer" ? oh! but 25% of all zebras? that's awful! Travesty! we have to stop to merciless killing of our poor Zebras!!! we're loosing a quarter of the herd every year! (still was just one zebra - doesn't matter how you slice it). looking at numbers without proper perspective is a silly, useless endeavor that almost always leads to inaccurate assessments, like what you've' presented. That's why statistics professors pound that rule into their students heads every year.
I agree that bad people, stupid people, confused people, evil people, people that make mistakes, people that caught a bad break, or whatever come in all colors, shapes, sizes, classes, and backgrounds.
What I don't agree with is that we all commit crimes at the same rate. Blacks don't just commit "their fair share" of crime. All races have their knuckleheads. there are many many white folks that need to be (and some are) locked away forever. There are also lots of black men that do find upstanding work in their community, are pillars of success and can be lauded as some of the best leaders in our communities.
but if I was a betting man, and the stakes were my life, like they were for Zimmerman, I'd be in his shoes right now. The numbers don't lie. Blacks are responsible for more than twice of their 'fair share' of crime. you cannot escape that fact.
Frankly, JMike, you sound like a good man. The kind of person I could be good friends with out in the world. Your intelligent, thoughtful, inquisitive and obviously have a very good head on your shoulders. But unless your an expert on young black men in America - and I mean a properly papered, masters degree holding, published expert on the topic, I don't think you'd have any right to address the caucus that TM's dad addressed either (much less get television air time). I understand that he's hurting, he lost his son. I am sure he is grief stricken. Doesn't mean he should be allowed to be pandered too. But that caucus isn't fighting for underprivileged young men in america. the word "black" is used conspicuously in the title of the caucus.
They say 'Quit putting the black man down' we need to overcome! - I say quit living up to that reputation young, black america and you will overcome it quickly. if it walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, chances are I'm gonna think it's a duck. If a guy looks like a criminal, thug or gangsta, acts like a criminal, thug or gangsta, talks like a criminal, thug or gangsta and mimics the lifestyle of a criminal, thug or gangsta - guess what I'm gonna think he is?
That's right. you're absolutely correct. there is a serious problem.
just for arguments sake, lets take your numbers and assume they are accurate:
69.2% of the arrests were white
28.4% of the arrests were black.
during that year,
72.4% of the population of the U.S. was white.
12.6% of the population of the U.S. was black.
ratio of white population to white arrest: 0.955801 to 1
ratio of black population to black arrest: 2.253968 to 1
12.6 percent of the population is responsible for 28.4% of the crime. hmm..... the white population is responsible for 'its part' no doubt. just a little under what it's population percentage is. All races have their share of 'real winners' - Just watch Jerry Springer, LOL. why aren't the numbers the same for the black population of America? Seems to me they should be. But they're not. never have been. It's getting better, but it's not there. not by a long shot.
you would think that if whites make up 70% of the population, they'd be responsible for 70% of the crime (and roughly, they are) and since
blacks make up 12% of the population, they're responsible for 12% of the crime - but they're responsible for more than TWICE that much crime.
Your argument would be like saying "more zebra die in Oklahoma per year that Whitetail Deer, based on percentage of their respective populations" - well no shiznat. there's maybe 4 zebra in the entire state. kill one and you've wiped out 25% of the states population. what percentage of the deer population is "one deer" ? oh! but 25% of all zebras? that's awful! Travesty! we have to stop to merciless killing of our poor Zebras!!! we're loosing a quarter of the herd every year! (still was just one zebra - doesn't matter how you slice it). looking at numbers without proper perspective is a silly, useless endeavor that almost always leads to inaccurate assessments, like what you've' presented. That's why statistics professors pound that rule into their students heads every year.
I agree that bad people, stupid people, confused people, evil people, people that make mistakes, people that caught a bad break, or whatever come in all colors, shapes, sizes, classes, and backgrounds.
What I don't agree with is that we all commit crimes at the same rate. Blacks don't just commit "their fair share" of crime. All races have their knuckleheads. there are many many white folks that need to be (and some are) locked away forever. There are also lots of black men that do find upstanding work in their community, are pillars of success and can be lauded as some of the best leaders in our communities.
but if I was a betting man, and the stakes were my life, like they were for Zimmerman, I'd be in his shoes right now. The numbers don't lie. Blacks are responsible for more than twice of their 'fair share' of crime. you cannot escape that fact.
Frankly, JMike, you sound like a good man. The kind of person I could be good friends with out in the world. Your intelligent, thoughtful, inquisitive and obviously have a very good head on your shoulders. But unless your an expert on young black men in America - and I mean a properly papered, masters degree holding, published expert on the topic, I don't think you'd have any right to address the caucus that TM's dad addressed either (much less get television air time). I understand that he's hurting, he lost his son. I am sure he is grief stricken. Doesn't mean he should be allowed to be pandered too. But that caucus isn't fighting for underprivileged young men in america. the word "black" is used conspicuously in the title of the caucus.
They say 'Quit putting the black man down' we need to overcome! - I say quit living up to that reputation young, black america and you will overcome it quickly. if it walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, chances are I'm gonna think it's a duck. If a guy looks like a criminal, thug or gangsta, acts like a criminal, thug or gangsta, talks like a criminal, thug or gangsta and mimics the lifestyle of a criminal, thug or gangsta - guess what I'm gonna think he is?
So, in the stats are all non-black ,considered white?
That's assuming that the officers (at first contact) are evenly applying their use of "discretion;" that two individuals (of different race) would be treated exactly the same for the same offense.
- Status
