New to old school

[becker_atc]

Well a while back I bought an Italian made hawken 50 caliber caplock.

Shot it this weekend. I used the bp substitute that came with the rifle. Fired it twice and hit the target at the 50 yard line . Both shots within about 3". Not the best but that will bag a deer where I plan on using it.

Now I got couple questions

I read (and was educated at EAS dinner by lurker66) that realdeal bp is the stuff to use. Where does one buy it in okc area?

FFG or FFFG in this rifle?

Using prelubricated patches right now is there something better to be using as far as material and lube (I have a tube of tc bore butter)

Got a box and a half of Hornady .495 round balls will shoot them for now but is casting them that much better?

Cleaning. Used windex patches and swabbed with bore butter

Need a possibles bag and a horn for sure. I think I could get into shooting these things


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[Okie4570]

Just keep it simple. Either powder size will be fine, I've shot both powder sizes (not a fan of BP (go easy on me Pulp/Lurker ) Since fffg is smaller than ffg, you'll get more powder per volume amount, so an increase in velocity. Once you get a patch/ball/lube worked out....... enjoy and shoot Best thing about casting is that you get to decide the ball material and somewhat cheaper, especially if you shoot a lot. If you don't shoot much, it' will take you a lifetime to pay for the equipment....if ever. Good man on the Windex, used it for years. Take pics of your deer of course!

 

[aviator41]

You have good mentors, and Okie has pretty much covered it for a newbie.

Don't be afraid to try bp substitute. The hawken might like it. personally, I like pellets cause it's easier in the field, then again so is a bolt action rifle, so it's relative. Love shooting the Black Mountain Magnum I got last year for a song. I get similar results at 50 yards, but your hawken is capable of shooting tighter groups with the right combo. It's worth experimenting to find a tighter group.

 

[Lurker66]

Alrighty. Here's some info and my reasons and advice. It's free.

First goal is try to be consistent in everything you do.

You can buy real BP at BassPro, Sooner State Pawn is supposed to start carrying Black Powder as well. Your gun is designed for the real stuff, and patched round balls, so that's what I'd use. Your rifle is most likely 1:48 twist but could be 1:60. It may shoot a conical ok but Round balls are very accurate in these traditional guns.

Anyways always remember this, in this order.
Powder, patch, ball. Powder patch ball, powder patch ball.

Powder: I recommend FFG Goex, but FFFG works as well. You'll get better velocity with FFFG but let your gun decide. You can try the "fake" powders but my experience has been that it degrades and sometimes causes delays in ignition. That stuff was made for modern inlines and 209 primers. Just my opinion tho.

Patch material is important. Always use 100% cotton patches and you want a tight weave. Most of us use pillow ticking. It's the striped stuff. I buy mine from a fabric store or....effing Walmart. You want it .010 or .015 thick. Most ticking is around .015.
I used to be a fan of bore butter but save yourself some trouble and use spit as lube. It's free and your bore will clean alot easier and you'll get more shots before you have to wipe or clean.
Cut your patches at bore...this help with consistency. You'll also want to look at your patches after you fire your gun. They're usually about 10 yds in front of where ya shoot. Just make sure they aint torn, shredded or burned thru. If so go to a thicker patch or different material but always 100% cotton. You may need more lube or more spit.

Balls. I'd use .490 but .495 is fine....depending on patch thickness. That's the reason I'd use a .490 rb. It allows you to try different thicknesses of patches. You want tight but not so tight the ball is hard to start. You don't wanna deform the ball. Always use pure lead...soft as possible. I cast my own or use Hornaday. Other than cost I've not notice a difference in accuracy.

Get a adjustable powder measure....set it at 60 grains to start.
Load 60grains, spit on your patch material, place ball on patch, start ball level with barrel, cut patch flush with barrel. Use your short starter and push ball down barrel, then use your ramrod to firmly seat ball on powder....don't bounce your ramrod on ball.
Shoot 3 shots. Load 65grains, shoot 3 shots, load 70grains, shoot 3 shots ect ect, until you find out what best group is. Usually it's between 60-80 grains. Anything 60 grains and over kills deer dead out to 100 yds with a round ball.

Caps; I only use CCI magnum caps. They are the hottest. Remington is ok.

Place your rifle on half cock and put a cap on nipple.
Aim, set your rear trigger, touch front trigger....and boom.

I clean my BP rifles using a windex soaked cotton patch until they come out clean. Then I use dry patches to ensure everything is dry inside barrel. Lastly I run a very lightly rem oil patch down the bore. Remember this....water and humidity is your worst enemy. Lots a ppl clean with hot water/cold water, dish soap ect. My advice...use windex and avoid water at all costs.

Your "possibles" and what ya need.
A bag to store your possibles. Either a horn or flask, I use both but find a flask more convenient. A powder measure, adjustable, until you find your load, then a fixed measure.
A strip of patch material. 2 inches wide by 2 foot long. Lube if ya don't use spit.
A short starter.
A patch knife...any knife will work but get it dangerous sharp.
Something to keep your balls in...bag or an altoid tin works.
Caps.
Nipple wrench
Cleaning jag, patch worm and ball screw or ball puller. In a tin or small bag.
Resist the urge to carry more "stuff". Btw those little quick load things are a total waste of time, imo, ymmv.
Learn to load from the bag and develope a very set routine. Less stuff in your bag makes it easier n faster to reload.

Shooting traditional guns is a blast. They are very accurate and low recoil when properly loaded. Kinda slow to reload but you'll learn to make every shot mean something.

Shoot me a PM when yall wanna shoot, I've got a extra rifle or 3 and a range down the road in Pink. I'd love to burn some powder.

 

[swampratt]

Lot of good info Lurker
I did a test of lubes and found the TC bore butter left a crud ring in my muzzleloaders.
You guys will know about that crud ring...When you go to seat the next round after the first one is shot you will
notice about when the bullet is seated all the way down it gets hard to completely seat, then the third bullet being seated
gets even harder to get all the way down on top of the powder.

The dreaded crud ring...I quit using Bore Butter and went with 50/50 candle wax and coconut oil to lube my patches.
No more crud ring.
Easy to seat bullets..
This is why Lurker recommends spit i bet.

I will second or third the windex rem oil for cleaning and lubing.
I keep patches soaked in windex in an air tight container.

One of the best things i have found to tighten groups is a leather wad on top of the powder charge.
I make my own from thick 7-8 oz leather or an old thick leather belt.
I made a punch to punch them out and make them .010-.015" larger than the bore.

Powder, leather wad, patch , roundball

 

[Lurker66]

I've tried bout everything for lube. Anything that melts or burns will leave a residue of some kind, Except spit. I can get 23-30 shots before I lose accuracy or load ability with spit.
I do use bore butter or mink oil to wipe down the outside of all my guns. Love the smell.

The leather wad trick works, as does wasp nest. The tips n tricks are endless and fun to try.

 

[becker_atc]

Wasp nest? Sound a little sketchy to aquire


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[Lurker66]

Lol it can be an adventure. I get most of mine from a box blind in winter. I ain't used the stuff in years. But over powder cards like swampratt says does work for some guns.

 

[Free Trapper]

Pretty hard to add anything to whats been said (good job guys).

I will throw in a patch lube that I discovered early this spring. Its called Mr. Flintlocks patch lube.

If your really old like me, you may remember Lehigh Valley patch lube, Its been off the market for years. I understand the maker had some health issues, but is still around.

George Sutton (Who is the flintlock shooter on the show "Impossible Shots") was putting on a shooting show at one of the big Eastern meets, ran into the guy and made a deal for the origional formula.

I have used about every brand/homemade concotion there is, but I really like this one. Cuts down on ramrod time considerably as it cleans and lubes at the same time. Did not change my POI at all.

Now, with all that said, I do not use it for conicals when hunting/or shooting in cold weather. I prefer using Track of The Wolfs real mink oil. Great conical lube and great patch lube when leaving the patch/ball down the tube for a long time...as in hunting in cold weather...I will confess that I hunt with a capper and conicals, also use a Lyman peep sight with a red insert on the front. My old eyes pretty well limit my buckhorn shooting to 50 yds or so...it is still my favorite blackpowder shooting, though.

As for storage, after cleaning I run a patch soaked with Ballistol through the bore...now there's a smell that will clear the room...always spot check my front stuffers once a month or so for rust...never a problem with Ballistol.

 

[swampratt]

Just thinking out loud.. if you get froggy and want to make some round balls i have all the stuff to make some .490" ones.

I have a Lee 90448 mold and a lee bottom pour pot and a bunch of soft lead and other lead.
I have some fffg from Goex in a steel can 16 oz no smell and dated with a marker on top of the can december '77
Might even punch out some leather wads.
I also have a punch i made to punch out round patches.. do about 15 at a time, just folding up the pillow ticking.

Just saying if you get froggy becker_atc