Proper procedure for notifying LEO of CC?

[twoguns?]

Originally Posted by Title 21, Section 1290.8 Section C.
It shall be unlawful for any PERSON to fail or refuse to identify the fact that the person is in actual possession of a concealed or unconcealed handgun pursuant to the authority of the Oklahoma Self-Defense Act when the person comes into contact with any law enforcement officer of this state or its political subdivisions or a federal law enforcement officer during the course of any arrest, detainment, or routine traffic stop. Said identification to the law enforcement officer shall be made at the first opportunity. No person shall be required to identify himself or herself as a handgun licensee when no handgun is in the possession of the person or in any vehicle in which the person is driving or is a passenger. Any violation of the provisions of this subsection shall, upon conviction, be a misdemeanor punishable by a fine not exceeding One Hundred Dollars ($100.00).

Ummm.. right THERE..


CLEET is not my boss, nor the maker of my laws.

The 3 Officers I talked to yesterday said they always ask for ID for everyone in the vehicle.


Papers Please!....didnt go so well....8/

 

[KOPBET]

It shall be unlawful for any PERSON to fail or refuse to identify the fact that the person is in actual possession of a concealed or unconcealed handgun pursuant to the authority of the Oklahoma Self-Defense Act when the person comes into contact with any law enforcement officer of this state or its political subdivisions or a federal law enforcement officer during the course of any arrest, detainment, or routine traffic stop. Said identification to the law enforcement officer shall be made at the first opportunity. No person shall be required to identify himself or herself as a handgun licensee when no handgun is in the possession of the person or in any vehicle in which the person is driving or is a passenger. Any violation of the provisions of this subsection shall, upon conviction, be a misdemeanor punishable by a fine not exceeding One Hundred Dollars ($100.00).

Yup, right there...

 

[Shadowrider]

Even though it was not an "arrest, detainment, or routine traffic stop?"

But was he working in an official capacity and was that the basis for his contact? If so, would it fall into a "detainment" as in a legal capacity? Our laws are generally so poorly written it brings up these questions.

 

[zirrow]

But was he working in an official capacity and was that the basis for his contact? If so, would it fall into a "detainment" as in a legal capacity? Our laws are generally so poorly written it brings up these questions.

Detainment is legal term that requires reasonable suspicion. Collection of camp fees would not fall under this category.

 

[Shadowrider]

Detainment is legal term that requires reasonable suspicion. Collection of camp fees would not fall under this category.

Makes sense.

But I guess if he stops by to say your stereo is a little loud or talk about the open fire during a fire ban, it might be different.

 

[twoguns?]

Yup, right there...

So you found it too, Cool....

 

[KOPBET]

So you found it too, Cool....

Yep, but it appears I found more than what you alluded to in the bold text.

 

[ProBusiness]

The law does not say when 'you' come in contact....I already posted the law. It says, ...unlawful for any person...during any arrest, detainment, or routine traffic stop.

If you are the passenger, you are any person during a routine traffic stop.

I wish the contact myth would stop propagating and the actual words of the law would be used.

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Quote Originally Posted by Title 21, Section 1290.8 Section C.
It shall be unlawful for any person to fail or refuse to identify the fact that the person is in actual possession of a concealed or unconcealed handgun pursuant to the authority of the Oklahoma Self-Defense Act when the person comes into contact with any law enforcement officer of this state or its political subdivisions or a federal law enforcement officer during the course of any arrest, detainment, or routine traffic stop. Said identification to the law enforcement officer shall be made at the first opportunity. No person shall be required to identify himself or herself as a handgun licensee when no handgun is in the possession of the person or in any vehicle in which the person is driving or is a passenger. Any violation of the provisions of this subsection shall, upon conviction, be a misdemeanor punishable by a fine not exceeding One Hundred Dollars ($100.00).

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hrdware - i am not sure where you are coming from. is 'you' not a 'person'? Do not you have to read the entire sentence,statue and not leave any words out. It says, '

when any 'person' which is a 'you' comes into 'contact' with a LEO during an arrest, detainment, or routine traffic stop, you must notify the LEO. So is not being in 'contact' part of this statue and should not be left out?


The key is not whether you are 'any person' in the car, but whether or not any person in the car comes into 'contact' with the LEO. The material sent to instructors by CLEET says as clear as day 'contact' means 'conversation'.

Just being a person in the car does not satisfy the actual words of the law that says a person must notify when they come into 'contact' (conversation) with a LEO.

 

[hrdware]

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Quote Originally Posted by Title 21, Section 1290.8 Section C.
It shall be unlawful for any person to fail or refuse to identify the fact that the person is in actual possession of a concealed or unconcealed handgun pursuant to the authority of the Oklahoma Self-Defense Act when the person comes into contact with any law enforcement officer of this state or its political subdivisions or a federal law enforcement officer during the course of any arrest, detainment, or routine traffic stop. Said identification to the law enforcement officer shall be made at the first opportunity. No person shall be required to identify himself or herself as a handgun licensee when no handgun is in the possession of the person or in any vehicle in which the person is driving or is a passenger. Any violation of the provisions of this subsection shall, upon conviction, be a misdemeanor punishable by a fine not exceeding One Hundred Dollars ($100.00).

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hrdware - i am not sure where you are coming from. is 'you' not a 'person'? Do not you have to read the entire sentence,statue and not leave any words out. It says, '

when any 'person' which is a 'you' comes into 'contact' with a LEO during an arrest, detainment, or routine traffic stop, you must notify the LEO. So is not being in 'contact' part of this statue and should not be left out?


The key is not whether you are 'any person' in the car, but whether or not any person in the car comes into 'contact' with the LEO. The material sent to instructors by CLEET says as clear as day 'contact' means 'conversation'.

Just being a person in the car does not satisfy the actual words of the law that says a person must notify when they come into 'contact' (conversation) with a LEO.

You are correct in that 'contact' is part of the statute that I did gloss over.

I think we both agree that this 'contact' does not mean a casual conversation while waiting in line at the local fast food restaurant.

I will admit, I do see the point you are making, but even though the CLEET materials specifically mention conversation, CLEET does not create or interpret the law. In this particular situation, I interpret the word 'contact' to be any 'official contact' by an LEO. At best I will agree that this is a grey area as I could find no case law that defines 'contact' in any official capacity.

 

[twoguns?]

You are correct in that 'contact' is part of the statute that I did gloss over.

I think we both agree that this 'contact' does not mean a casual conversation while waiting in line at the local fast food restaurant.

I will admit, I do see the point you are making, but even though the CLEET materials specifically mention conversation, CLEET does not create or interpret the law. In this particular situation, I interpret the word 'contact' to be any 'official contact' by an LEO. At best I will agree that this is a grey area as I could find no case law that defines 'contact' in any official capacity.

Agreed, ....and for what its worth, I always have my identifiers ready when a passenger.... ...while carrying