Question for LEOs or anyone else that might know.

[Glocktogo]

If the officer has PC to search, they will search regardless of whether you give permission or not. Your permission simply solidifies their authority to search. Saying no doesn't prevent anything. I'd never give consent personally. If they have PC or want a look see bad enough, let them work for it.

 

[ratski]

You can refuse the search. The officer may detain you for a "reasonable" period of time. SCOTUS hasn't given us a bright line, but there is some guidance in caselaw. I'll go pull my books off the shelf when I get home.

As to the comment that the dog "WILL alert," I don't doubt it. See also The Mind of a Police Dog: How misconceptions about dogs can lead to abuse of humans; in good news, there's a growing trend toward at least some skepticism of dogs as incontrovertible evidence, and the Supreme Court heard a case on the subject this very term: http://reason.com/blog/2012/03/30/scotus-will-consider-dogs-reliability-as.

I appreciate the response.

I understand that the dog may not "really" alert. But, basically what the officers told me (and then did the we will deny this bit) was that the dog would alert. If there are several police officers around your car and they are walking a K9 around it, they would guarantee that it alerted. The dog might not, but it would be sworn to that it did.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that there isn't a time when that might be a good thing. But, what I was told (again, in confidence) was that it wasn't worth the hassle I would get by refusing the search.

And most of my experiences with the local uniforms bears this out.

Dave

 

[OKC_Jim]

flatfoot

Flatfoot? What year was this? It seems like you only hear that insult in old movies.

 

[Glock 'em down]

Flatfoot? What year was this? It seems like you only hear that insult in old movies.

Trust me. I've been called everything and anything you can think of in my 23 years as a flatfoot...so far.

 

[kd5rjz]

I can think of at least 3 or 4 times I was searched or have been in a car that was searched and it was all traffic stops, mostly during my youth, but no alcohol was involved. Must've been the long hair.

Same here. Until I got older, I would get searched every time I got pulled over. (because my car always supposedly smelled like marijuana) In my youth I had TPD and a couple other local agencies be very unfriendly about their right to look through my stuff.

 

[vvvvvvv]

I've never heard of an officer asking to search a vehicle unless he/she had some indication of drugs being in the car.

Must be my long hair (and usually unkempt facial hair). FWIW, I've never had an officer come to my window. I have always been asked to walk slowly to their car, sometimes backwards (which is NOT fun on the side of a busy interstate at night when a semi or two can't get into the left lane for whatever reason).

[D]epartments [don't] send canine units out for giggles. It sounds likes someone isn't being truthful about their 'oh, I got pulled over and harassed by the cops' story which is pretty common.

I guess I fit the profile.

If you say no to having your vehicle searched then the assumption is that you have something to hide

According to most of my LEO friends, it's a routine question. (And no, "friends" is not sarcastic here. My best friends mostly consist of LEO. And lawyers. And maybe a judge or two.)

By the way, failure to consent cannot be used as any part of the basis for the search. The reasonable suspicion or probable cause must have existed prior to the request.

However, if you say no then you just either wait for a canine...

When the officer starts stalling to wait for a canine (that has a <50% hit rate in a controlled environment, but a >75% hit rate on the side of the road), they are promptly informed about reasonable time to conduct business pertaining to the subject of the stop. If he says a canine is on its way, I'll request an oral summary of reasonable suspicion (outside of simply meeting the profile) for the dashcam or lapel recorder prior to the dog's arrival.

I treat traffic stops the way I treat knock-and-talks.

Everyone should know and assert their rights.

 

[HMFIC]

I lost my car in a tragic boating accident.

 

[vvvvvvv]

I lost my car in a tragic boating accident.

You tried to make an amphibious vehicle without reading the instructions about buoyancy first, didn't you?

 

[Michael Brown]

I treat traffic stops the way I treat knock-and-talks.

Everyone should know and assert their rights.

I believe this to be a very reasonable position.

I would not consent to a search of me or my property.

The moment the officer says he/she is indeed going to search my property I would not get in their way but I would not offer my consent to such.

It is reasonable to ask if you are free to go.

that said, the officer may tell you no and at the time is under no obligation to give you the reason. You may ask but I believe everyone is better off not being argumentative or demanding after the officer refuses. It doesn't help your situation at all.

All that said, VM, you are scaring me if you've been knock and talked before.

Michael Brown

 

[vvvvvvv]

All that said, VM, you are scaring me if you've been knock and talked before.

When I lived in Weatherford, two of the places I lived were apartments near the campus. There were a couple of times where two officers knocked on the door after responding to a noise complaint for a party in another apartment (not my complaint - I didn't care as long as they didn't piss on my van from the second floor). They'd start by saying they had some questions about some "other" activities in the area and would ask if they could come in. I would politely refuse and answer their questions outside the door on the sidewalk, until they would inevitably ask if they could "take a look around". I had one occasion where "someone at the party said..." was part of that conversation, but my refusal was still accepted.

Long hair, unkempt facial hair, van, overnight shift, another daytime job, attempting college, playing music, PA system for my "stereo" in my apartment (DJ'd through high school, kept the equipment for a while after), and very outspoken about the idiocy of drug laws probably didn't help. And probably the part about me playing endurance races on Gran Turismo while listening to Kottonmouth Kings...