Question for LEOs or anyone else that might know.

[Lurkerinthewoods]

I've never heard of an officer asking to search a vehicle unless he/she had some indication of drugs being in the car.

but when he called me a fat motherer, that's when I had had enough.

You should have stopped by the doughnut shop on the way to booking...

I would be curious to know if they keep a record of how many "hits" turn out to be false and if so, is there a % that would disqualify a canine for drug search duty.

 

[NINEROUND]

If the officer has PC to search, they will search regardless of whether you give permission or not. Your permission simply solidifies their authority to search. Saying no doesn't prevent anything. I'd never give consent personally. If they have PC or want a look see bad enough, let them work for it.

^^This was what I was taught at CLEET in '99. The odor of alcohol consumption, just like the odor of marijuana, confers probable cause that some crime based on the circumstance has been committed. You always have the right to refuse a consent to search, but refusing doesn't mean one isn't going to happen. Similar to the implied consent law about driving while intoxicated.

 

[jmoney]

I would doubt that the passengers were being asshats. Maybe giggling girls, but that would be about it. No one underage.

While I agree that MOST departments don't send out the canine units for giggles, I know that here in Lawton that they WILL send out the dogs if you say "no" to a search and I know that they WILL alert. Got that directly from a few officers who I know well.

I'm just wondering for future events. If I were to get stopped and NOT want my car searched (assuming NO probable cause), can I just refuse the search and ask to go on my way?
If they say "no, you have to stay here", my thought would be "why am I being detained?"

Dave

The dog will alert regardless of whether or not there is something? That is a serious issue. Detection dogs are usually pretty spot on, I have watched several of them going through the training and have thought about putting mine through it once she finishes her protection training.

I know some people like to get tricky with their passive indicators, but most of the ones I have seen are more likely NOT to indicate than give a false indicator. Frequent false indicators, or a dog that simply indicates all the time should not be used in detection...period.

 

[Glock 'em down]

You should have stopped by the doughnut shop on the way to booking...

...bastardo...

 

[vvvvvvv]

I would be curious to know if they keep a record of how many "hits" turn out to be false and if so, is there a % that would disqualify a canine for drug search duty.

They should be. If not, it leaves an opening to question the dog's training.

Of course, according to at least one dog handler, false positives do not exist because they were unable to verify the alert at that time.

 

[jmoney]

You should have stopped by the doughnut shop on the way to booking...

I would be curious to know if they keep a record of how many "hits" turn out to be false and if so, is there a % that would disqualify a canine for drug search duty.

don't know about a %, but if a dog gives many false indicators then it would be safe to say that any time it is used...well you can toss that out. A defense attorney would literally breeze through proceedings if he could show the dog was not properly trained.

Dog guys usually take their training pretty seriously, the end handler on the other hand can be hit or miss. I know awhile back there was a guy in texas who was formerly one of the top k9 officers in the state who showed some video of a dog that would indicate when the handler would flash the reward toy...

 

[Lurkerinthewoods]

...bastardo...

You know you laughed a little..

 

[Lurkerinthewoods]

don't know about a %, but if a dog gives many false indicators then it would be safe to say that any time it is used...well you can toss that out. A defense attorney would literally breeze through proceedings if he could show the dog was not properly trained.

Dog guys usually take their training pretty seriously, the end handler on the other hand can be hit or miss. I know awhile back there was a guy in texas who was formerly one of the top k9 officers in the state who showed some video of a dog that would indicate when the handler would flash the reward toy...

I have no doubt any hit would be a true indicator that, if not present, something was present at one time. Never had my car or truck sniffed, just curious.

 

[jmoney]

I have no doubt any hit would be a true indicator that, if not present, something was present at one time. Never had my car or truck sniffed, just curious.

I don't recall off the top of my head how long the odors can remain to a detectable level but if you want I'll ask the owner of K9 university on friday when I drop my dog off.

 

[vvvvvvv]

Detection dogs are usually pretty spot on

Only 44% turn up a true positive in Chicago, and only 27% when only accounting for Hispanics

Only 25.7% of Illinois State Police dog alerts were true positives, according to their own official documentation

80% false positive rate in Australia

Dog has 100% alert record, only 42% were true positives
Expert's reviews show only a 52% true positive rate (same source as previous link)

Just sayin'