Selling AR-15 pistols with a stabilizing brace

[JEVapa]

Nice this is, if it’s a ar pistol, take the brace of and it’s not a NFA item and as long as you don’t register it, then sell it as you want or keep it it’s that simple. We were shooting the damn things for years without braces before they came into play.

What he said
Remove brace, sell pistol. Go buy rifle. Or, remove brace, attach rear sling, go shoot pistol. Have fun.

 

[Perplexed]

All I asked was that you look at the link I posted. If not, all's fine. I am trying, in this thread, to shed some light on the recent ATF decision. I'm not here to debate the legality of it, the morality of it, the reasonableness of it, or the sanity of it.

Point taken. It just irks me to no end how the Idiot administration thinks it can run roughshod over the separation of powers and have an executive agency make up or change the rules at a whim. I know, it happens all the time, but the history of brace legality is so blatantly anti-2A in the very vagaries of the ATF and its interpretation of the rules, that it’s high time they were put in their place once and for all, and by extension the Idiot admin, by SCOTUS.

 

[O4L]

Nice this is, if it’s a ar pistol, take the brace of and it’s not a NFA item and as long as you don’t register it, then sell it as you want or keep it it’s that simple. We were shooting the damn things for years without braces before they came into play.

BTW, walking through the gun show today, still lots of guys selling braced pistols or trying to anyway. But not a lot of braces.

Just yesterday I found a few examples of big name dealers online selling pistols with braces. It must not be as illegal as some think it is.

 

[mightymouse]

Just yesterday I found a few examples of big name dealers online selling pistols with braces. It must not be as illegal as some think it is.

Speeding is illegal, too, but lots of people just take their chances. Selling an AR-15 style pistol with a brace after Jan 31, 2023, is tantamount to transferring an unregistered NFA firearm (since those offered online couldn't have been registered this quickly), and that is illegal. See sections 9.1 and 9.2 at the link below. Section 9.2 specifically states that only previously registered NFA firearms can be legally transferred.

https://www.atf.gov/firearms/docs/undefined/atf-national-firearms-act-handbook-chapter-9/download

 

[mightymouse]

Okay, a serious question for all the Doubting Thomases out there: If, while digging around in your dead Granddad's old cedar chest at the old home place, you find an unregistered machine gun, do you believe that you could advertise it on OSA and sell it in a face-to-face transaction?

 

[CAR-AR-M16]

I usually try to stay out of these types of conversations where emotions are so high, but here is my 2 cents. Do I think the new rule is dumb, yes. Do I think it will be overturned in court, most likely (depending on which court hears it). Do I think everyone should comply and register them as SBR’s, that is a personal decision and you need to weigh the consequences of your action (or inaction). An NFA violation is not something you want to mess with. Even if your are found not guilty, you will still be out a ton of $ in lawyer fees. I think that everything that Mightymouse has posted is correct based on my own understanding of all of this. I believe his purpose of posting this thread is just so everyone knows all the facts and can make an informed decision.

 

[sh00ter]

Just yesterday I found a few examples of big name dealers online selling pistols with braces. It must not be as illegal as some think it is.

Yeah I saw some too, they are just trying to dump them on unsuspecting customers...the gun industry isn't very pro-gun owner...they just want to make a buck. I figure that after the 120 day period, they won't be able to sell the braced weapons like that anymore because then they are SBR's

But did they ever clarify the buffer tubes?

https://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-ar-15-pistol-10-5-carbine-5-56-1-7-nitride-9-lightweight-m-lok-moe-ept.html

 

[rc508pir]

Written in the Stabilizing Brace Final Rule, ATF has concluded that any foreign-made pistols with stabilizing braces would be assembled in violation of 922(r), (as the firearms are retroactively being considered rifles),” the Firearms Regulatory Accountability Coalition said in a social media post. “As such, registration or removal of the brace would not bring the firearm into compliance. According to ATF, this leaves destruction or surrender to ATF as the only available options for foreign-made firearms with braces. This would include imported pistols where the brace was added at any stage, regardless if done by the user or the importer.”

. This is where I got this from. If it’s wrong, then I am wrong and I won’t post it anymore.

If the brace was considered a 922 compliance piece then yes, but you only have to replace it with another compliance piece

 

[JEVapa]

If the brace was considered a 922 compliance piece then yes, but you only have to replace it with another compliance piece

This is true but according to the letter/rule and the ATF, 922r only applies to rifles.
They specifically state this.

 

[mightymouse]

Yeah I saw some too, they are just trying to dump them on unsuspecting customers...the gun industry isn't very pro-gun owner...they just want to make a buck. I figure that after the 120 day period, they won't be able to sell the braced weapons like that anymore because then they are SBR's

But did they ever clarify the buffer tubes?

https://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-ar-15-pistol-10-5-carbine-5-56-1-7-nitride-9-lightweight-m-lok-moe-ept.html

sh00ter, first things first. Braced AR style pistols are already SBRs, as of Jan 31, 2023. The 120 day grace period is to allow people to register their SBRs with the ATF. Some unscrupulous sellers may be trying to dump inventory so they don't have to register their SBRs, but they are treading on very, very thin ice. They are in fact trying to transfer unregistered NFA firearms and that is a federal felony. Class I FFL dealers cannot legally possess, nor can they legally transfer NFA firearms, and Class III FFL dealers must first register their braced pistols as SBRs--which will take months-- before they can then sell them. (In the latter case, the sale cannot be immediately completed on the spot, as all NFA procedures must be followed to allow for transfer, which usually occurs after a matter of months).

On buffer tubes, I simply do not know the answer.