Sustainability - A serous conversation

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OKC9-12LEDR1

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I've been reading the treads on topics like bugging out and what are you preparing for. I see a lot of people sharing some good ideas and many have a fairly decent plan for what to do in a given situation. The big question that I don't see most people considering is how do you become sustainable, whether it be in your home or at a BOL.

Hopefully we are all stocking up on food, have a variety of water filtration and sanitation sources, of course guns and ammo are part of the conversation. I read an interesting article a couple weeks ago by a Russian who compared the ability of the Soviet Union to weather the collapse it went through, to how well the United States will be able to do. I will try and find the article and post the link. What the point of the story was the US is much less capable of handling what is coming than the Soviet Union was. It also pointed out that it took a good 10 years for them to recover. So if we are much worse off, and the comparisons they made were quite good, then how long would this collapse that we are facing last, 10 years, 15 years, 20 years? Argentina collapsed in what 2001, they are still battling it.

So back to my point, sustainability... What do you do when your food stores run out? When your fuel runs out for your generator? When your meds run out? If you are bugging in, which many are, what do you do when your neighbor runs out of food? I think you get my point.

I think people need to rethink this whole situation and take a good hard look at the realities of what we face, not if, but when this fragile society we have does collapse. Having a garden in your backyard is good, but are you prepared to put up a 24 hour watch to protect it? Are you prepared to shoot your neighbor when he jumps your fence in the middle of the night and steals your head of lettuce, or your chicken?

If you do have land, hopefully far out enough from the city and remote enough to avoid most of the Golden Horde, do you have the ability to defend it, can you post a 24 hour watch with just you and your immediate family?

This is going to take community to come through this, we cannot survive with each of us bugging in, surrounded by hungry and eventually hostile neighbors. It is going to take people forming groups, like minded individuals and families who are willing to pool resources, skills and literally work their collect butts off to make this happen. It is going to take time and money, most of which from my experience most people don't have enough of or are not willing to commit to this kind of thing.

We need to take this conversation to the next level, but how many are willing to do that? Those in my opinion are the ones that will survive long term. We need to be talking about storing a variety of fuel sources and how to deal with the day when those run out. We need to be talking about not only raising chickens, rabbits, fish, and so on, but how do you deal with the food they will need, how to you grow enough to take care of them so they can be there for us. How do we deal with the drought conditions we are facing, what if this is not just a one of two year thing, but decades? If you can open your mind to the big picture, then we can truly start to prepare. To me prepping has become a lifestyle, I plan to survive, to protect my 3 children and their families not only for today, but tomorrow as well. I am doing what I describe here, how many are willing to do the same? This is the conversation that needs to be had.
 

Muskrat

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We are very lucky to live in the middle of nowhere on very good soil and enough land to sustain family on. We have prepared for about anything that might happen with the exception of military intervention. ( Their Fire power)We can protect what we have, We have set ourselves up to farm but when fuel runs out then the old fashion way. We have horses to use. We are about as prepared as can be without ever going through hard times before to have a "been there done that" mentality about it. I truely believe my family will survive with the skills we collectively have.
 

Old Fart

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The thing that bothers me is I'm not sure any of us can get far enough out in the woods to avoid the roaming hordes.
What's your take on this?
 

10Seconds

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The thing that bothers me is I'm not sure any of us can get far enough out in the woods to avoid the roaming hordes.
What's your take on this?


I think so. Look how lazy many of these urban dwellers have become. Dont want to work or think for themselves as it is now. I cant see them organizing enough to make 100 mi or greater treks out to remote areas on the off chance of finding an unguarded stash. Now if your BOL is just outside the city limits, then you may want to rethink that one.
 

Muskrat

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The family has dicussed that very thing of roaming hordes as you put it. Without going into any great detail we have differant reactions as to if they are families, groups of mixed gender and age or just a band of looters. I have no desire to hurt anyone but i know very well that my family can and will protect ourselves even if it is just a perceived threat. It will depend very much on body language, who you are ( race has nothing to do with it)weapons you have and the way you display them. We won't turn someone away if they are truely in need for we do have plenty and the means to sustain it but if you are just after what we have or to cause trouble you will cease to exist.
 

shooterdave

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What comes next in the sustainability conversation is scary. By that, I mean that many, including myself, don't want to talk much about it for fear of reprisal from .gov and also fear of giving others too much information. My family and I have spent the better part of 6 years now developing our little slice of heaven away from others. We are more than 30 miles in any direction from any population center of more than about 5k. We stock for an extended time frame as a way of life cause it's 10 minutes to go for even milk or gas. Now I'm not saying we are prepared for TEOTWAWKI, but I don't think anyone really is. Sustainability has been a topic from day 1. Not only the basics like seeds and grain, but things like how to tap the nat. Gas line flowing from the well 1/2 miles from the house to the old farmall tractor that has not electronics on board. There is a lot of valueable things available for the taking, too, in a collapse of society scenario. Anyone else notice all those fancy solar panels the highway dept is now using for signage and sensors? Don't think they will need them after the fact, but I might... I reckon the 50 acres at we don't allow the cows to graze will be useful to feed the critters until we set up rotation, too. Water is going to be a big issue, but a dug well now could be the difference in life and death later. That, or the series of artesian springs that feed one of my ponds.

I'm not throwing. These things out to rub noses, I'm trying to spark some thought in your setup without giving all of mine away. We are generous neighbors now, but I'm not sure how well that holds up if you come visiting with anything but the best of intentions. As a firearms instructor, I have a pretty good understanding of the requirements needed to protect/defend a moderate sized spread. I believe that our group (read family) is fairly well prepared to use these skills and corresponding firearms to do just that. The youngest in now old enough to make good decisions and be useful in not only shooting, but also observation and recon. The oldest is still viable enough (and plenty willing) to defend his position vigorously. The girls are capable and willing enough.

I encourage everyone serious to take stock and ask yourselves serious questions..

Can you live with what you have for a year, six month, a month?

Do you have the supplies and equipment to be self sufficient at the time your edibles run out?

Are you set up for sanitation and water purification when the grid goes down? Remember that your sewers and water lines aren't going to work after a short time with no power unless you have designed them for just that. Septics clog up with solid waste and no bio organisms. Is your family prepared to poop in a hole in the ground in January?

Is your firearms/ammo reserve set up in a ratio that will be sufficient for years, if not decades? Do you have ample supplies of solvents and lubricants? What about spare parts like firing pins and magazine springs?

Do you have enough clothing or material to make clothing to keep you sheltered and not naked after a year or so? What about footwear? Do you have several pairs for each person? How about the kids? Have you taken into account that there sizes will change frequently as they grow up?

Is your home/cabin in good enough repair that you don't have to worry about it falling in in a year or two? Do you have hand tools to repair the eventual problems that arise? What about supplies like a few squares of shingles to patch a leaky roof after a wind storm?

Have you put any thought into vehicles or animal husbandry? (insert joke here)


These are just a few of the things that need to be addressed. Do you even have a hand saw capable of cutting firewood, or a maul to split it? How about a fireplace to burn it in? Any thoughts on commodities like soap and toilet paper? I personally don't want to wipe my a$$ with leaves if I can help it. These thoughts are just the tip of the iceberg.. Time to start you own lists.
 

Muskrat

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Shooterdave:
Thanks for the comment for you have brought up some things I need to get that I didn't think of. Like you I also don't want to say much on my plans or what I may or may not have or my exact location. It will be hard there is no rose colored glasses about that but we will survive.
 

sklfco

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Interesting thoughts, just sustain the lives of you and yours. Quick question, who do you see rebuilding after this SHTF event? The .gov that you no longer trust? Some big multinational .corp? I will bet you a lunch it will not be the entitlement addicted city dwellers.
 

BadgeBunny

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City dwellers would be at a distinct disadvantage.

This may or may not be the case. Certain neighborhoods, simply by virtue of the fact they are a "old fashioned" neighborhood, where the neighbors all know each other, and while there may only be a select few you visit with regularity, everyone is acquainted with each other and because of it's location, may actually fare better than "outliers" with acreages and not enough manpower to protect it.

Now that I am more "situationally aware" (yes, yes, yes ... again, thank you GC :rolleyes2) I've seen many neighborhoods where I believe the neighbors are making efforts to be more self-sufficient. I have no illusions -- I am absolutely positive that if I have noticed it I'm sure folks I don't know, but who know what to look for, have noticed it, too. It is amazing what you can learn about a neighborhood just by walking your dogs and looking around. I know where every nurse, LEO, construction worker, mechanic, welder, gardener, backyard chicken "farmer", and several hunters (and yes, the trouble makers and deadbeats) are in my neighborhood ... I'm pretty damned sure they all know where I am, too.

I'm not young enough to have some pie-in-the-sky expectation that GC and I are gonna buy a section of land and I'm gonna farm it all by myself while he hangs out at with the county deputies at the local coffee shop when he retires. You can do a LOT with a normal suburban backyard and some good neighbors. While I want a piece of land out in the country I do not see me ever selling this house. One of us WILL get sick and need regular medical care ... I'm not gonna be 45 minutes from the nearest oncology clinic or dialysis center when one of us has to come into town several times a week for procedures that, without, we would be gone inside 2 weeks.

I tend to believe that you should "flower" where you are "planted" ... if you don't you find yourself on the short end of the stick, whether the STHF or not ...
 

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