Your opinion on the "police state" or "militarization of law enforcement"?

[Tcox]

Hi guys,
I'm a little nervous to post this as I'm aware of some of the more extreme debates that this can cause but please, let's keep it clean.

Over the last couple years I have seen a lot blogs, posts, soapbox speeches, ect. Regarding the mindset of police being similar to a gestapo. I see that many people don't believe that law enforcement should have rifles, armor that can stop rifle rounds, or other specialized equipment.

How do you guys view these issues/debates?

 

[rawhide]

Hi guys,
I'm a little nervous to post this as I'm aware of some of the more extreme debates that this can cause but please, let's keep it clean.

Over the last couple years I have seen a lot blogs, posts, soapbox speeches, ect. Regarding the mindset of police being similar to a gestapo. I see that many people don't believe that law enforcement should have rifles, armor that can stop rifle rounds, or other specialized equipment.

How do you guys view these issues/debates?

I've casually followed stories about the militarization of the police and as I see it the debate has not been whether police should rifles, armor, or specialized equipment but rather how they are used. I have no problem with local police or a community having an arsenal that can be accessed when necessary. What concerns me is are SWAT style raids when a knock on the door or an arrest at a safer location may have been effective. I wouldn't pretend to know what the police "need" nor am I an expert on the best tactics to employ in special circumstances. I think they need whatever is necessary to get the job done. But citizens questioning the tactics that are employed is not a bad thing and should be directed at those in command rather than the officer putting himself in harms way.

 

[aarondhgraham]

It's not their equipment,,,
It's their militaristic attitude.

I'm a veteran,,,
We were taught to put the enemy under submission.

But we didn't have to determine who the enemy was,,,
Our command staff did that for us.

Civilian cops have forgotten that pesky little "Innocent until proven guilty" thing,,,
They seem to embrace "Kill them all and let God sort out the sinners",,,
Or at least "Arrest them all and let the lawyers sort it out".

I am not some low life they need to demand complete and immediate submission from,,,
I don't dress that way, look that way, or conduct myself that way,,,
I am a law abiding, tax paying, mind my own business citizen.

So why is it that every time I have even the smallest interaction with a cop,,,
They are demanding that I "Get on the ground Mother-******!"

That's what happened the last time I was approached by a cop,,,
I refused to drop to my knees so his partner put me down.

I was told by their watch commander that they had no way of knowing that I wasn't the guy who just mugged a college kid,,,
I told him that if his people had to resort to those tactics out of "Officer Safety",,,
They were too cowardly to be cops in the first place.

I'm extremely tired of this crap,,,
But that's how they are being trained nowadays.

I'm glad I'm older than dirt.

America as I knew it has died.

Aarond

.

 

[Fyrtwuck]

The first signs I ever saw of any "militarization" of police was on TV back in the 70's. Patty Hearst had been kidnapped and was robbing banks with the Simbionese Liberation Army and the LAPD SWAT was born.

 

[Glocktogo]

Agreed. It's the lack of community based policing. It's the adoption of military tactics on American citizens as SOP. It's the nighttime no-knock or knock & smash raids in the absence of exigent circumstances. It's the lack of accountability to non-LE authority.

All of those things are FAR more important than whether they have rifles and plate carriers in the trunk or an armored vehicle on the parking lot.

 

[Tcox]

Do you guys base these happenings or attitudes on personal experiences or through current events/media coverage?

 

[sanjuro893]

I know a detective with OCPD that constantly butts heads with other members on his squad because they have too much of a "gung-ho attitude". He says the SWAT team doesn't even want these guys cuz they're a little too eager to kick in a door and put somebody's face in the dirt. I understand that some times, certain equipment is needed for certain situations such as a hostage situation, bank robbery, full civil unrest, etc. But I firmly believe police work is best done (and the community kept safer) by a cop who uses their brain rather than a cop who feels he/she can't do the job properly without tactical gear, fingerless gloves and an APC.

 

[aarondhgraham]

Do you guys base these happenings or attitudes on personal experiences or through current events/media coverage?

When I (at the age of 61) had my legs kicked out from under me by a cop,,,
I'm going to say that was personal experience.

Aarond

.

 

[uncle money bags]

Agreed. It's the lack of community based policing. It's the adoption of military tactics on American citizens as SOP. It's the nighttime no-knock or knock & smash raids in the absence of exigent circumstances. It's the lack of accountability to non-LE authority.

All of those things are FAR more important than whether they have rifles and plate carriers in the trunk or an armored vehicle on the parking lot.

Exactly.

Do you guys base these happenings or attitudes on personal experiences or through current events/media coverage?

Personal experience. In training evolutions, not from being violated and having a chip on my shoulder about it.

I know a detective with OCPD that constantly butts heads with other members on his squad because they have too much of a "gung-ho attitude". He says the SWAT team doesn't even want these guys cuz they're a little too eager to kick in a door and put somebody's face in the dirt. I understand that some times, certain equipment is needed for certain situations such as a hostage situation, bank robbery, full civil unrest, etc. But I firmly believe police work is best done (and the community kept safer) by a cop who uses their brain rather than a cop who feels he/she can't do the job properly without tactical gear, fingerless gloves and an APC.

Having the RIGHT person for the job is important in every profession. Much more so when lives are at stake.

 

[ConstitutionCowboy]

There is a big police presence in my neighborhood - but it is because they live here. Each and every one of them are regular Joes and Janes. One is even a watch captain. I do not believe, from my observations, that the problem has anything at all to do with rank and file officers. I believe the problem lies with those in the highest command levels who are sycophants of and allies to ambitious politicians. It's about power - the power to suppress an uprising that would stand in the way of the subjugation of We the People.

Progressive movements toward socialism are becoming more and more difficult to "sell" to the people, and the pinnacle of just how far the people are willing to go or endure has been reached. Brute force is the only thing left to them, they know it, and brute force will not succeed to topple an armed populace without an armored force. Even then that is doubtful, but when staged against a disarmed or limitedly armed populace, there is nothing to prevent brute force from being an effective force to drive us into servitude.

We the People are in a state of being limitedly armed and poorly armored. Sure, we can still resist and would likely prevail - for now - but we can plainly see how the armoring up of our police forces is tipping the balance of power away from the people and toward the state.

Comments from our current president, actions by wealthy subjugation advocates like Bloomberg and Soros, and comments from the likes of Al Sharpton demonstrate that there is the will among politicians and the elitist to effectively disarm the populace and to build that unresistible police state force.

Weigh the facts for yourself, apply some insight, and follow their means toward the only logical end. Oh, and pray that somehow I am wrong.

Woody