When the 19 first came out, the superior steel and heat treat was a fact...but, 10-15yrs later, such better steel and heat treat may have been done across the board, such is technological and manufacturing change. It still leaves most .38Spl cylinders too short for anything but lighter bullets in magnum brass, while seating the heavier bullets maybe the required hair deeper with magnum loads could raise pressure enough to test that steel and heat treat hypothesis. I try not to play too much past known things when holding explosives. A different matter in larger diameter and thicker walled cylinders of N-frame or Ruger diameter. Would not want to take much chance in even an L-frame cylinder, which is smaller diameter than even the old model Blackhawk .357 cylinder, which could be bored out to .44Spl while the L-frame was only large enough for a 5-shooter in same caliber. I think the J-frame cylinder (not frame) is even stronger than the K-frame, it thicker walled and locking notches offset from thinnest point, unlike the K-frame. The notches are where cylinders intially bulge and then blow.
The other hypothesis being he simply beat it into submission.
I was never a fan of the L frame but it is a yeoman's revolver . I was always a Model 19 guy and feel its the perfect revolver for carry .
No argument there....perfect for carry, and beat the N-frame .357 handily for that. But not the gun for high volume .357 shooting, where the N-frame best for that IF you can reach the trigger and still have a solid hold. The 681 coolness is the great grip duping K-frame goodness, durability with sustained .357 shooting. and easier on the shooter doing that due to increased weight up front....calling one or the other better is like carpenters arguing over whether a hammer or saw is better. They both are most excellent for their respective purposes.
My personal reasons for adoring the 681 would be I love the forged and machined S&W dense stainless which takes a wonderful finish and resists deep pitting corrosion better than cast stainless with flow additives. It also a smoother and more handfitted action than others...
But, primarily it is because I love larger S&W fixed sight guns but was cursed at birth with large palms and stubby fingers, and no matter whether the .44 Hand Ejector, M1917 or .38/44 Heavy Duty, I just could not shoot the things and they went away. The L-frame 681 is as close as I can come to big ol' Smiffs and it chambers an equally potent classic round.
Was just again shooting it this morning with its favorite 1300fps+ true velocity 158gr SJHPs, and it is a shooter, probably better than the best effort 1.25"/25yds my aging eyes can muster, with average running more like 1.5".
Guy showed up as I finished up, and said, "Nice sounding revolver," then saw the retrieved target and added, "Nice shooting, too!".
Yep....
But, primarily it is because I love larger S&W fixed sight guns but was cursed at birth with large palms and stubby fingers, and no matter whether the .44 Hand Ejector, M1917 or .38/44 Heavy Duty, I just could not shoot the things and they went away. The L-frame 681 is as close as I can come to big ol' Smiffs and it chambers an equally potent classic round.
Was just again shooting it this morning with its favorite 1300fps+ true velocity 158gr SJHPs, and it is a shooter, probably better than the best effort 1.25"/25yds my aging eyes can muster, with average running more like 1.5".
Guy showed up as I finished up, and said, "Nice sounding revolver," then saw the retrieved target and added, "Nice shooting, too!".
Yep....
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The 681 cylinder is plenty beefier enough for a regular diet of the stoutest standard factory ammo, and have already had my day playing Speed King with suchlike Dean Grinnell's 1200fps M-60 loads, among others, (which I NEVER would have fired in a Model 10), and found that playing Speed King led to that bane of all manly men, Projectile Dysfunction.
A detective pal of mine in Texico whomped up some gas checked Keith HP .357 loads using old data and newer powder, shot a spike buck in the neck and all which left the head attached was a strip of hide, but I was pretty sure the tail was not bloodshot and quite edible.
Another friend, who was Indiana State Police champion in the revolvulator golden age and handloader of vast experience whom I trusted, told me of his 10" Super Redhawk load with a 180gr XTP which was doing in excess of a clocked 1900fps, where I doubted his sanity until he pointed out the published load. So, naturally, I loaded up a box and took the planet wreckers to the range with my Redhawk and, sure enough, I was averaging 1825fps from the 7.5" which is .454 territory in velocity if not 250gr bullet weight. I was contemplating the controlled expansion bullet and envisioning shooting bad guys through post office mail boxes or maybe through post offices, no place to hide, not behind a brick wall or Wells Fargo truck, only worry was changing local weather patterns.
I dragged along nine water-filled tough 1gal Gatoraid bottles and wondered should I have brought more, packed them tightly in line and let rip with the thing which sounded more as a .30-06....
was rewarded with getting misted 25yds away, a towering gout of water making me think of Old Faithful, and an oscillating flattened 1ft piece of plastic wafting down like a leaf, and went out to observe the devastation....and all but one of the jugs were still there, each now was separated by an inch or two of space, and water glug glugging from front/only of second jug from a very large hole, and inside was what appeared to be two discs of metal foil between the diameters of a quarter and fifty-cent piece, one was copper and the other was lead...
Those loads likely would have been the hammer of Thor on a deer at 100yds, but I could find no real use for them past taking them along on crowded range days to clear the range and give me more privacy.
Speed isn't everything. The 681 will do everything I need of the .357 S&W Magnum.
A detective pal of mine in Texico whomped up some gas checked Keith HP .357 loads using old data and newer powder, shot a spike buck in the neck and all which left the head attached was a strip of hide, but I was pretty sure the tail was not bloodshot and quite edible.
Another friend, who was Indiana State Police champion in the revolvulator golden age and handloader of vast experience whom I trusted, told me of his 10" Super Redhawk load with a 180gr XTP which was doing in excess of a clocked 1900fps, where I doubted his sanity until he pointed out the published load. So, naturally, I loaded up a box and took the planet wreckers to the range with my Redhawk and, sure enough, I was averaging 1825fps from the 7.5" which is .454 territory in velocity if not 250gr bullet weight. I was contemplating the controlled expansion bullet and envisioning shooting bad guys through post office mail boxes or maybe through post offices, no place to hide, not behind a brick wall or Wells Fargo truck, only worry was changing local weather patterns.
I dragged along nine water-filled tough 1gal Gatoraid bottles and wondered should I have brought more, packed them tightly in line and let rip with the thing which sounded more as a .30-06....
was rewarded with getting misted 25yds away, a towering gout of water making me think of Old Faithful, and an oscillating flattened 1ft piece of plastic wafting down like a leaf, and went out to observe the devastation....and all but one of the jugs were still there, each now was separated by an inch or two of space, and water glug glugging from front/only of second jug from a very large hole, and inside was what appeared to be two discs of metal foil between the diameters of a quarter and fifty-cent piece, one was copper and the other was lead...
Those loads likely would have been the hammer of Thor on a deer at 100yds, but I could find no real use for them past taking them along on crowded range days to clear the range and give me more privacy.
Speed isn't everything. The 681 will do everything I need of the .357 S&W Magnum.
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S&W armorers were taught at the factory to use a babbit bar to make adjustments to barrels in the same manner as the broomstick method in the earlier post. The babbit just required a lot less whacking. S&W also instructed their armorers not to perform the adjustments within sight or hearing of the customer (for obvious reasons.) This method of adjustment for fixed sights revolvers is as old as the Revolver itself. For those wondering, a babbit bar is a round bar of lead and antimony mix about 3/4" to one inch diameter. Before WW2, machinery and even car engines (Duesenbergs and Auburns come to mind) used babbits instead of bearings. When it wore out, you would remove the old babbit and fill the cavity with molten babbit material. When it hardened you had your new babbit bearing. The old material would get melted down and poured into a bar mold to be reused again later.
And concerning the "M" stamp recall, S&W still honors it and still has parts should anyone have need of it. I personally prefer my L frames without it for collectibility purposes only, but if I were using it where my life may depend on it, I would consider it.
And concerning the "M" stamp recall, S&W still honors it and still has parts should anyone have need of it. I personally prefer my L frames without it for collectibility purposes only, but if I were using it where my life may depend on it, I would consider it.
Thanks for the insight into agency armorer practices, neither of whom likely to spring for barrel vises and action wrenches except perhaps the most flush with funding. Ditto as the info on parts still available, and hopefully skill, in order to install parts not used on production guns for over a quarter of a century. I still wonder if the original idea behind the beater bar was SOP barrel turning to regulate fixed sight guns. I like the idea as force applied unlikely to warp frames, especially with the broomstick...
As for the recall on what were standard S&W bushings and hammer noses as used in the L-frame, I will only point out that no other magnum from whatever vintage and which used the exact same parts was ever mentioned, and if unsafe in the L-frame were unsafe in the other guns. S&W was stumped over what was a PR disaster for their law enforcement sales, had an outsider look at it and who theorized that perhaps the angle at which the (floating!) nose entered the bushing hole allowed the primer to push the nose back out, which seems a tall order on a nose which moves always, while it later became clear light bullet ammo from a major LE sales supplier was at fault in at least many cases. If the gun and ammo combo is not cratering, then why send the gun in to be altered to a more easily broken nose? I think S&W was just desperate enough to announce a solution to the mystery, is the why of the recall. Of whatever make/era, I know of guns and ammo lot combos which crater and bind, and never a recall before or since on the guns.
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