Active shooter, Ft. Hood

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loudshirt

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I know most of the thoughts are in the right place, however on a practical level concealed carry or open carry for that matter is very impractical during the work day on a military base. I can only speak for the combat arms side of the job. There is way too much training where mixing real bullets and blanks/dry fire training can prove very hazardous. There are also many aviation jobs that even in Afghanistan and Iraq the mechanic's weapons are in racks across the hanger do to danger to the aircraft and or mechanic. In all honesty there are people who are in the military who need to have direct supervision every time they have a loaded weapon. If you look at the number of negligent discharges and the injuries associated with them in Iraq and Afghanistan you will see that there are some issues with everyone being armed all the time.

The everyone should be required to carry argument is just a knee jerk and as bad as the ban all guns argument. The comparison of the modern military to the Continental Army is apples to fire engines on how different things are. The practical solution to this is go back to requiring the Duty NCO (for Marine types), CQ (for Army types) and the OOD (Officer of the Day) to carry 24/7 while on duty. This gives many more armed personnel available to respond in the event they are needed. Through out my time in the Marine Corps there were varying levels of this going on however if it was mandatory through out the military it would drastically improve or readiness and response time to these events.

Now the Navy is a whole other discussion. Just so people who have not been on a ship before will understand. In Naval Station San Diego in order to get on a ship you have to go through 2-4 layers of security from the gate guards, to the guards at the end of the pier and then the OOD before you are actually on the ship. If you are on a small ship there is a chance you will have to cross another ship to get to yours. All of these ships have the force protection gear needed to keep people from carrying weapons onto the ship. They just need to use them. There is not one reason to have a personal weapon on a ship.

As for concealed/open carry off duty on a military base I am pretty indifferent about that. There would have to be some restricted areas, however those would be areas already under armed guard or access controlled type areas. If you really look at military bases they have some very low violent and property crime numbers compared to the areas surrounding the base. Is there violent crime and property crime on military bases? Yes however compared to the cities just off base the rate is very low.


http://terminallance.com/2012/01/23/terminal-lance-174-breaking-news/
 

Lurker66

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I LOL at this whole dammed thread. You all sound like a bunch of libs.

You all champion constitutional carry, and yet wish to limit the military because they "might" have PTSB? Are you freeking serious?

Gang members in the military? Really? Gangs don't exist in the civilian world? LOL. .

Ever watch WWII/Korea/Vietnam vets describe their experiences on tv shows? To a man they shed a tear for lost comrades. Obvious PTSD by todays definition. Should we deny them the right to own a firearm?

Some of you need to go back and read your own thread, and rethink your opinion.

Dennis as I've said earlier, I don't have any suggestion as to a solution. My concern lies with all our soldiers. I don't want them to ever lose a single right. I also don't want another soldier committing suicide due to PTSD. Same with locking them up due to alcohol abuse or drug use, when it can be directly traced back to PTSD. These problems needs to be addressed.

Awhile back there was a thread talking about how a person must be adjudicated as mentally ill before they lose the right to bear arms. Well PTSD is a mental illness. Again I don't have a solution but once again a soldier that may have had PTSD bought a gun and killed some people, then committed suicide. Perhaps if there would have been a way to have him adjudicated as mental or psychotic due to PTSD, this may not have happened.

As it stands, we lost and injured several of our soldiers.
 

ignerntbend

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Well PTSD is a mental illness. Again I don't have a solution but once again a soldier that may have had PTSD bought a gun and killed some people, then committed suicide. Perhaps if there would have been a way to have him adjudicated as mental or psychotic due to PTSD, this may not have happened.

.

What are the symptoms of PTSD? Depression/Anxiety/Sleep Disturbance. Those things do not add up to "psychotic"
If they did, tens of millions of Americans could be adjudicated psychotic.
That's the wrong road to go down.
 

Lurker66

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What are the symptoms of PTSD? Depression/Anxiety/Sleep Disturbance. Those things do not add up to "psychotic"
If they did, tens of millions of Americans could be adjudicated psychotic.
That's the wrong road to go down.

I know, perhaps tens of millions shouldn't own guns. Arming tens of millions with mental illness just doesn't sound right either.
 

ignerntbend

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I know, perhaps tens of millions shouldn't own guns. Arming tens of millions with mental illness just doesn't sound right either.
If a person is prescribed an SSRI should he be stripped of his gun rights? If a person who has ever sought treatment for anxiety or depression be stripped of his gun rights? You're talking about a lot of harmless Americans being stripped of their gun rights. I need Ambian to sleep at night doctor. I need the Ambian more than I need my gun rights. TENS of Millions of Americans.

Soma Soma Soma
 

Lurker66

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If a person is prescribed an SSRI should he be stripped of his gun rights? If a person who has ever sought treatment for anxiety or depression be stripped of his gun rights? You're talking about a lot of harmless Americans being stripped of their gun rights. I need Ambian to sleep at night doctor. I need the Ambian more than I need my gun rights. TENS of Millions of Americans.

Soma Soma Soma

yes a very slippery slope. This is one of the few times I'm stumped. Maybe it'sjust better to continue to lock up our soldiers with PTSD or let them commit suicide. I mean PTSD even in minor degrees is still mental illness. Hell maybe there is no answer.

I wonder what Spock would say? Nano, Nano.
 

ignerntbend

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People are dealing with PTSD. The government is letting a bunch of them down in terms of support, but they're dealing with it. THE VAST MAJORITY of them are dealing with it a day at a time I suppose. One way to assure that they never get the help they need would be to classify them as Psychotic.
 

Jestik

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yes a very slippery slope. This is one of the few times I'm stumped. Maybe it'sjust better to continue to lock up our soldiers with PTSD or let them commit suicide. I mean PTSD even in minor degrees is still mental illness. Hell maybe there is no answer.

I wonder what Spock would say? Nano, Nano.

This is it. You either strip them of their rights (which won't stop them from getting their hands on a gun ala Adam Lanza) or we continue to let them purchase guns, and those that are really really sick and have not found out will continue to do stuff like this.

After I heard about the shooting I called up my good bud who was in the military stationed at Fort Hood, and he said that place was so damn depressing to be around. He talks about a guy he knew stood in front of the 1st Cav HQ and blew his brains out. He talked about the general air of sadness and depression. Also, let's not forget that Killeen, TX was the sight of the worst mass shooting in America's history...the Luby Cafeteria Massacre.

I think that place just has bad juju.
 

Riley

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Now the Navy is a whole other discussion. Just so people who have not been on a ship before will understand. In Naval Station San Diego in order to get on a ship you have to go through 2-4 layers of security from the gate guards, to the guards at the end of the pier and then the OOD before you are actually on the ship. If you are on a small ship there is a chance you will have to cross another ship to get to yours. All of these ships have the force protection gear needed to keep people from carrying weapons onto the ship. They just need to use them. There is not one reason to have a personal weapon on a ship.
http://terminallance.com/2012/01/23/terminal-lance-174-breaking-news/

Despite all this, there was a sailor killed in Norfolk on a destroyer last week by a contractor who got on the ship, disarmed the watch, and shot another watch stander. Amazing I know.

http://www.wbaltv.com/news/family-md-sailor-killed-in-in-norfolk-navy-shooting/25173036

When I was a young sailor, my first armed watch consisted of a pre-watch qualification of identifying the safeties on a .45 and demonstrating the proper procedures to load it. We had rounds, but the weapon was not loaded. During security alerts, drills or real, one of our responsibility was to secure the brow (primary ship access). We did this by racking and locking back the slide with a magazine in hand, so the load and shoot cycle was quite low.... we had the benefit of distance and hopefully time...

We also had the benefit of a full third of the leadership of the command on board at all times. We were required to ready for sea at all times.

I know boilers take time, however we had a lot more people, and experience, on board at any time then they do today. I will note, three section duty sucks like little else...

Now days the watches have loaded weapons with the resultant negligent discharges on turnover etc. Limited leadership and personnel. I'd guess the Senior leadership was probably a LTjg, maybe an Ensign, 01-02, for you joint types....

In the case I posted above, it seems the armed watch, usually a senior petty officer and the officer of the deck, was overpowered and the junior watch stander intervened to save their life. Unfortunately the loss of his was the result...

In my opinion, we, the military have gone a long way down a road to make service the equivalent of working for the post office, not that they don't work hard but it really should be different.

Maintaining, operating, and deploying weapons systems in hostile environments is not for everyone.

I think we ought to stop trying to make the responsibility and sacrifice something in which anyone can find success.
 
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