Doctors and gun question

[tRidiot]

Wait till obamacare REALLY kicks in say 4 years from now, and all doctors become gummint employees like UK or Canada.
They'll be pretty much filling in forms. But, on the up side they won't be sued by the evil lawyers.
Of course our health care will go bye-bye.

On this you are sorely mistaken. Liability will continue to increase, while freedom to practice will continue to decrease.

 

[abajaj11]

On this you are sorely mistaken. Liability will continue to increase, while freedom to practice will continue to decrease.

here is my opinion:
I believe the trial lawyer lobby is being thrown a bone for supporting obamacare initially, but if you look at Canada, UK and other govt run systems, docs do not get sued.
Once you are a govt servant, you won't get sued (of course you'll also make far less money). The trial lawyer lobby are useful idiots right now for the overall grand design of govt run healthcare.
Obama and others could not take on everyone at once, so they divided the insurance, healthcare providers and lawyers and managed to get it thorugh by pulling every conceivable trick in the book. If not repealed, in 4 years or so, there will be a govt run system, with no meat left for the lawyers or the insurance providers.I know it is hard to imagine that right now, especially if you have only known the system here, but if you look at other systems and where this is heading, it's not hard to see what it will be.
The goal is to control and re-engineer society via healthcare.
The world's biggest employer today is the British healthcare system. In 10 years it will be the US healthcare system.
Expect a Value added tax to pay for this as well. So personal income tax around 65% for the wealthy, along with 10% Federal tax on all purchases in the business supply chain (which means cost of goods will about double assuming that to build an item that you buy for $100 takes about $1000 in business transactions as different components for the item are made and resold along the supply chain).
And gun rights....bye bye. Guns and ammo will be taxed far more than cigarettes are today, since they will be deemed
health hazards by innumerable "scientific studies" trotted out by useful idiots in think tanks.

Unless we repeal Obama Care over the next 2 years.

 

[cw821]

Back to the OP. I know at the OU family med clinic, they have two different questionaires. One for adults, with no gun question, and one for minors that does ask if there are guns in the home. Really hacked me when I saw that. I wasn't a patient there, but was there in another capacity from time to time.

 

[Glocktogo]

All you have to do is say no.

If you want to get technical about it, the myriad layers of scrutiny and protection came from customers suing their practitioners for every little BS perceived wrong. If you want to sign an agreement with me as a provider saying you take all advice and treatment as voluntary and give up any right to sue me, then fine. I'll practice based on "common sense". But the fact is, common sense isn't good enough to be held as a standard in a court of law, and isn't good enough to protect me and my family. If I have to choose between getting your dander up and protecting my family's means of support and lifestyle, then you'll just have to get pissed and head elsewhere.

I've never said I agree with this crap... I'm just telling you how it IS, and how it WILL BE. And if you or anyone else thinks for a second that their feelings trump my family's livelihood or the 11 years of training it took me to get where I am, I'm sorry, but you are mistaken.

Medicine is no longer by-and-large considered a "noble profession" and almost no one out there gives a damn that doctors live in constant fear and worry of doing their best, giving up their free time and family time, working long hours at disgusting tasks and still having everything taken away by the very people they're trying to help.

I'm not surprised you or anyone else falls into the category of "I'm paying you, you do what I say." Like I said... please don't come and visit me as a patient, because you'll be leaving quite upset, I'm guessing.

Have you expressed your objections to the "standard survey"? Have you sought alternatives that don't alienate your customers? If you're "just using what admin tells you to", who's in charge of the medical care? You, or admin? I'm getting a lot of feedback from your posts that you largely blame the customers for the poor rapport the medical industry has with them? So I'll ask just a couple more questions, then leave you alone. Has the medical industry done all they should to weed out bad doctors? Has the medical industry done all it can to protect itself from an overly litigious society? Do they share any culpability in the overall atmosphere of disdain and distrust that makes it appear to no longer be a "noble profession"?

I have a very good GP and I've had a couple of excellent surgeons and specialists. My wife has had one excellent surgeon and one very poor one. Funny how all but the bad one had one thing in common, a good rapport with their customers. The bad one was OK at first, but turned into a jerk the second there was a legitimate complaint.

 

[tRidiot]

here is my opinion:
I believe the trial lawyer lobby is being thrown a bone for supporting obamacare initially, but if you look at Canada, UK and other govt run systems, docs do not get sued.
Once you are a govt servant, you won't get sued (of course you'll also make far less money). The trial lawyer lobby are useful idiots right now for the overall grand design of govt run healthcare.

My experience with gov't run healthcare is that it is becoming just as litigious (where possible) as the US's so-called "private system." Unlike alot of people who want to talk about healthcare not having been involved in it, or specifically about socialized medicine, also having not been involved in it, I have. I have worked in the socialized medical system and know for a fact doctors DO get sued and DO lose and DO have a large fear of frivolous lawsuits. This, in turn, leads to protective behavior on the side of the practitioners. Maybe your experience was that they don't, by my experience is that they do. I know there are restrictions in some places on one's ability to sue a gov't employed physician, but not all systems employ that.

 

[tRidiot]

Have you expressed your objections to the "standard survey"? Have you sought alternatives that don't alienate your customers?

There is no alternative. You either ask the questions and CYA, or you don't, and let it hang in the breeze. It's a personal choice.

If you're "just using what admin tells you to", who's in charge of the medical care? You, or admin?

it's not about doing what admin says. It's about doing what you have to do to protect yourself from liability. What you are advocating is essentially saying, "Damn the torpedoes, full speed ahead." I somehow think you just don't understand the basic nature of how the medical system works. Not that I expect you would. I don't fault you for that, but many people aren't interested in educating themselves or learning about it, either.

As a physician, you have a medical license which says you can practice medicine the way you want to. For the most part, you're free to do this. But the bottom line is, if you do things which are considered to be "outside the standard of care," then you are increasing your liability and opening yourself to additional complaints. If you happen to be an employed physician (i.e., by a larger group or a hospital system, etc.), then you're also at risk of losing your job due to an increase in "perceived" liability. Not to mention losing your insurance coverage. And good luck practicing anywhere in any capacity without insurance.

I'm getting a lot of feedback from your posts that you largely blame the customers for the poor rapport the medical industry has with them? So I'll ask just a couple more questions, then leave you alone. Has the medical industry done all they should to weed out bad doctors? Has the medical industry done all it can to protect itself from an overly litigious society? Do they share any culpability in the overall atmosphere of disdain and distrust that makes it appear to no longer be a "noble profession"?

Blame the customers for poor rapport? I dunno... not sure how to respond to that, actually. I think too many "customers" take little to no responsibility for their own health. They want a pill to fix everything, or they want xrays, lab tests and even surgeries when there is no need for them. There is no consequence for people who abuse the system and the practitioners. Medicaid/Soonercare has little or no copay or consequences for overuse. You can go to the ER a dozen times a month for every little tickle in your throat or ache and pain in your back, and if you don't get the antibiotics or narcotic pain medicine you want, you just call up and complain to the administration, who then has to come down on the doctor for not keeping "the customer" happy.

I work in the Emergency Room nowadays, because I grew too fed up with the BS involved in running a practice. It's not worth it, in my opinion. Too many upfront costs, too many regulations, too much hassle and time spent in paperwork that is not directly related to patient care, but is otherwise necessary and you get paid nothing for. In many of my day-to-day situations, there is no possible way to both practice medicine appropriately and keep people happy due to a number of factors. The fact that people are already pissed off because they've had to wait hours. Everybody feels they need a prescription for antibiotics or pain medicine. Tylenol, ibuprofen and non-narcotic pain medicines "never work for me". Abusing the system with dozens of unnecessary visits for minor or imagined complaints. Thorw in the fact that we have to run thousands of dollars worth of unnecessary tests, just again to CYA. I could go on for hours on end, but I also know that no one really cares, and nothing will ever change, either. Except to get worse. It's more of the entitlement mentality pervading our society today. Unrealistic expectations from all sides.

I have a very good GP and I've had a couple of excellent surgeons and specialists. My wife has had one excellent surgeon and one very poor one. Funny how all but the bad one had one thing in common, a good rapport with their customers. The bad one was OK at first, but turned into a jerk the second there was a legitimate complaint.

Sounds good.

I will tell you that when I had my practice, my patients adored me. I was tactful and handled things as well as I could, and kept things in line for the most part. But again, government restriction and intervention drove me away from it. And now I work in the ER. Where you get sucked into the vortex of BS and learn to insulate yourself even further by overtesting (which administration WANTS you to do anyways), CYAing, and dealing with the abusers of the system one of two ways - you either give them all the drugs they want and they love you and abuse the system even more, or you put your foot down and try to practice good medicine and you get complaints. I am one who gets complaints... 90+% of which are from the people who abuse the system the most, yet still have "a voice."

You can hold whatever opinion of me you like. I practice medicine in a way that I feel is most appropriate, yet try to protect myself and my family, and I do my best not to encourage the abusers.

I can't wait to pay off my debts and walk away from this crap. I honestly wish I'd never gone to medical school, and I tell everyone who asks me not to go. Maybe I'm one of the bad ones, one of the problem people who should be weeded out of the system. I dunno. I am, however, tired of being told what I greedy bastard I am, who just profits off of other people's misery. This, by the .gov, of course.

 

[VladdDImpaler]

So, looks like DHS is taking further steps. Heard an ad on the radio today that said something along the lines of:

If you are aware of a home with children and unsecured firearms, please notify DHS at the following number...

Probably has something to do with this month being Child Abuse Prevention Month. Ridiculous.

 

[abajaj11]

So, looks like DHS is taking further steps. Heard an ad on the radio today that said something along the lines of:

If you are aware of a home with children and unsecured firearms, please notify DHS at the following number...

Probably has something to do with this month being Child Abuse Prevention Month. Ridiculous.

Maybe they should also ask folks to report on "unsecured swimming pools in homes" since WAYYYY more kids get hurt there.
Also, if there is a shaky basketball hoop that is "unsecured" at its base, it could blow down and hurt kids, so that should be reported too. If anyone is suspected of leaving tools lying around, like a hammer or a screwdriver in an "unsecured" fashion THAT should be reported. Also, if any electric outlets in the house have not been "properly secured" that should be reported.
In fact any device that could POTENTIALLY hurt kids that has not been properly secured should be reported.
Oh wait, that is unreasonable? then how do we pick on what should be reported on? Maybe look at how many deaths or injuries are caused by each of these?
If you look at a center for disease control notice, hey don't even list "unsecured" firearms as occurring the top causes of deaths, they are not even mentioned. The leading causes are vehicular deaths. So maybe someone who has a DUI or speeding tickets should not be allowed to drive kids?
Here is the link: http://www.cdc.gov/Features/HomeSafety/

So what do we conclude? "unsecured" firearms? that is clearly just the gummint trying to make guns look evil. they do not even show up on most lists of top causes of kids' deaths and injuries.

 

[Billybob]

So, looks like DHS is taking further steps. Heard an ad on the radio today that said something along the lines of:

If you are aware of a home with children and unsecured firearms, please notify DHS at the following number...

Probably has something to do with this month being Child Abuse Prevention Month. Ridiculous.

Records indicate DHS is more harmful to children than guns.


"Fifty children - on average - continue to die annually under the care of the Department of Human Services."

http://bixbybulletin.com/news/legis...fb_ref=story-bottom&fb_source=profile_oneline