Interesting. Thanks for posting - makes sense to me. I also believe that in those situations where God, through divine intervention alters the freedom of choice / action for some greater and unknown purpose, is often later recognized as a miracle.
Interesting. Thanks for posting - makes sense to me. I also believe that in those situations where God, through divine intervention alters the freedom of choice / action for some greater and unknown purpose, is often later recognized as a miracle.
The lack of logic makes me wonder how much people are really objectively thinking in situations or considerations such as this, rather than running on emotions. In which "god" is supposedly omnipotent but yet somehow man has reasoned a set of rules in regards to "free will."
"one of the truly bad effects of religion, is that it teaches us that it is a virtue to be satisfied with not understanding" - Richard Dawkins
Have you ever considered the fact that it is you who doesn't understand, not me? Of course not - who could fathom such a thing.
Everything i believe makes absolute perfect sense to me.
While God is all powerful, He cannot break his promises because He is truthful. He cannot change His decision after it is made.
To use a physical example, a person standing on top of a mountain makes a decision that he will hike down without taking even one step that gains elevation. Once that person begins making his way off the mountain, the choice of routes are limited owing to his decision.
I see nothing illogical in this.
That's fine, you may not see it as being illogical but it's quite simple. If he truly were omnipotent, he would be able see the mass amount of suffering before it even happened. The whole scenario would then be devoid of any logic.
I'm sure it makes sense to you. You, like many others seem to be content on being guided by other men in terms of your spirituality. It just doesn't work for me. There's too many hypocrisies and fallacies for me accept explanations such as these as they are mental masterbation at best, because they came from man.
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Who is guiding your beliefs? The information that you deem to be logical, comes from what sources?
Sorry for the delay of my response.
I'm dodging nothing, and you've obviously misunderstood, show me where I said Christianity should be rejected.
The sites I posted didn't say "Christianity was based on bad acts", it showed where some of the ideas/beliefs/ideologies/attitudes, etc. that have been proven to cause these problems come from. Why is there a problem there? Don't we have to recognize where wrong acts come from to avoid them?
I'm not trying to prove America is bad and no my logic doesn't say the core beliefs are wrong. My logic says the record shows that at times those beliefs are debatable as to meaning and application, not followed, or even perverted, should we not see that and learn from that?
I have never said the core beliefs of Christianity were not valid or due respect just like anybody else's. I've tried not to insult anybody's beliefs/doctrine or lack of. But if you want to fish for opinions/beliefs on my part to discredit or dismiss my statements or questions based on history and some commonly discussed theology type questions then go ahead.
Just remember the whole point of this thread is the OP guy seeking/questioning/shopping for an answer if not path/direction/side etc. and anybody giving an opinion by the authority or under the umbrella of a specific system also have to be expectant of questions and debate regarding that system. And some would contend have a certain amount of respect for others that don't have the same belief or the exact same interpretation/understanding/experience etc. of that belief.
You mean illogical? Are you saying one needs a "source" to apply critical thinking to said explanation?
He is omniscient. He saw the total amount of suffering when man first sinned. That is why He was angry in the garden of eden.
Certainly it is noble to attempt to reduce suffering. But it is not logical that the very highest purpose should be to eliminate suffering. That is your subjective judgement. You might look into how different cultures view suffering and how philosophers view suffering. When I was in south Asia one of the perplexing sayings that stuck with me was, "Pain and happiness are one".
