When I get the gun from him I'll visit you. Maybe next weekend?
Whenever. Just let me know.
Whenever. Just let me know.
Cool, I'll bring you a couple cigars if you're interested. If I had some good beer I'd offer you that. Just got some 6 point Coors Light, a sixer of fat tire and some shiner bock (all from TX).
You had me at Hello.
Nice, I've got a few dog rockets I've been meaning to discard.
I actually copied Matt, you did help me out a bunch during my build. Josh is the one that built my rifle as well. It is somewhat unfortunate that my rifle turned out cooler than yours. Lol...
After a 15 hour drive I am now two miles from Mexico and 3 miles from the Gulf of Mexico. I'm going to offer up a few points for your consideration before I sack out.
"Milspec" involves a lot more stuff than just making sure the parts all fit together. Prime example would be the difference between commercial receiver extensions and milspec receiver extensions. According to the spec the parts are actually to be of aluminum that is forged and then machined (I believe the materiel is 7075.). The 'commercial' receiver extensions are typically extrusions of a softer aluminum, therefore they need to be thicker to get the same amount of strength out of the part. According to some I've heard the thickness of the commercial receiver extensions makes them superior as if packing more of an inferior material in an area can somehow mask it's inferiority.
This is also a common difference with charging handles. IE- milspec = forged vs commercial = extrusion. All parts are not the same.
Again, this comes back to a minimum standard. You can certainly exceed it and some makers do by leaps and bounds. Others seem to trip all over their clown shoes.
Like anything else in life it comes down to your needs. I tend to look at my firearms the way I do a seatbelt or fire extinguisher. If I'm grabbing it, it needs to work.
If all you need is something for blasting at the plinking pit every third saturday or a prop for fancy internet photography there are certainly products out there that can accommodate you with the look and feel of an AR without the quality of substance or the associated price tag.
This I agree with. Operator error, like almost anything else firearm related, is a very big problem. One major contributor to that problem is the lore and tales that either get passed along institutionally (by the service) or person-to-person. This lore and ******** includes such wonderful things as, 'all parts are the same' and 'the gun will blow up if you don't stagger the bolt rings'.
That being said, an inexperienced owner mixed with a gun that isn't built correctly just is not going to end well. Knowledge can mitigate some things on a bad gun but a turd can only be polished so far.
Just so that we can all be clear, things wear out when they get used. In it's simplest form a semi-automatic firearm is a combustion engine. If you run an engine with dirty oil or without oil for too long it will get damaged. Same thing for a high mileage gun. Ever notice how some brands of cars seem to last around 100k miles and then just bite the bullet and others can go 250-300k before needing an overhaul? Not all parts are the same. True for cars and for guns both.
Additionally, everyone who manufactures parts for these guns makes a certain percentage of crap parts. The good manufacturers simply makes less crap, do a better job of catching it before it hits the street or some combination of the two.
Bushmaster gets bashed on because they deserve it. Between incorrect twist rates on barrels to improperly staked carrier keys and chambers that don't match what they've stamped on the barrel there are plenty of reasons to avoid Bushmaster. They have earned their reputation; details really do matter.
Now I don't know as I don't pack and ship guns for DPMS but it is likely coated with a preservative, not lubricant. The rest of this has little bearing on the subject at hand. It's amazing how well machines run when you give them even just basic maintenance and care...
Again, very little bearing on the subject at hand. The quality (or lack thereof) of the guns can be enhanced (or not) by the modifications of the end user. If the end user doesn't know what they are doing the results will usually show this.
I'm off to bed.
Ek
"Milspec" involves a lot more stuff than just making sure the parts all fit together. Prime example would be the difference between commercial receiver extensions and milspec receiver extensions. According to the spec the parts are actually to be of aluminum that is forged and then machined (I believe the materiel is 7075.). The 'commercial' receiver extensions are typically extrusions of a softer aluminum, therefore they need to be thicker to get the same amount of strength out of the part. According to some I've heard the thickness of the commercial receiver extensions makes them superior as if packing more of an inferior material in an area can somehow mask it's inferiority.
This is also a common difference with charging handles. IE- milspec = forged vs commercial = extrusion. All parts are not the same.
Again, this comes back to a minimum standard. You can certainly exceed it and some makers do by leaps and bounds. Others seem to trip all over their clown shoes.
Like anything else in life it comes down to your needs. I tend to look at my firearms the way I do a seatbelt or fire extinguisher. If I'm grabbing it, it needs to work.
If all you need is something for blasting at the plinking pit every third saturday or a prop for fancy internet photography there are certainly products out there that can accommodate you with the look and feel of an AR without the quality of substance or the associated price tag.
This I agree with. Operator error, like almost anything else firearm related, is a very big problem. One major contributor to that problem is the lore and tales that either get passed along institutionally (by the service) or person-to-person. This lore and ******** includes such wonderful things as, 'all parts are the same' and 'the gun will blow up if you don't stagger the bolt rings'.
That being said, an inexperienced owner mixed with a gun that isn't built correctly just is not going to end well. Knowledge can mitigate some things on a bad gun but a turd can only be polished so far.
Just so that we can all be clear, things wear out when they get used. In it's simplest form a semi-automatic firearm is a combustion engine. If you run an engine with dirty oil or without oil for too long it will get damaged. Same thing for a high mileage gun. Ever notice how some brands of cars seem to last around 100k miles and then just bite the bullet and others can go 250-300k before needing an overhaul? Not all parts are the same. True for cars and for guns both.
Additionally, everyone who manufactures parts for these guns makes a certain percentage of crap parts. The good manufacturers simply makes less crap, do a better job of catching it before it hits the street or some combination of the two.
Bushmaster gets bashed on because they deserve it. Between incorrect twist rates on barrels to improperly staked carrier keys and chambers that don't match what they've stamped on the barrel there are plenty of reasons to avoid Bushmaster. They have earned their reputation; details really do matter.
Now I don't know as I don't pack and ship guns for DPMS but it is likely coated with a preservative, not lubricant. The rest of this has little bearing on the subject at hand. It's amazing how well machines run when you give them even just basic maintenance and care...
Again, very little bearing on the subject at hand. The quality (or lack thereof) of the guns can be enhanced (or not) by the modifications of the end user. If the end user doesn't know what they are doing the results will usually show this.
I'm off to bed.
Ek
Kurt has a funny way of saying things here. Suffice to say that he's shot barrels/guns to death for years, and he's saying that if it was his money to spend, he'd buy DPMS. So take that for what it is.
Bring out those ATAS BCM carbines to the 3-gun match next Month in Arcadia or the USSA rifle match. You'll have a lot of fun and learn a bit about your abilities and your equipment, plus you can make fun of my DPMS barrel.
Of course it's the person behind that trigger that determines how effective a weapon is, and there are some local shooters around here that are more dangerous with Red Ryder BB guns than the average guy toting an AR-15.
In your dreams! I did cheap out on a few things. I still had a year left of college when I put it together. Moneys were tighter back then for sure. I still like how it turned out though. Maybe it was Matt that stated this copying Dustin trail.
Since you have been up so long I will keep this short, but what exactly is an "incorrect twist rate"?
What is an improperly staked carrier key? I know what the consensus is BUT is that the ONLY way? I can count on one hand the number of loose keys I have seen...admitedly from once again a very small number of rifles/carbines, and in every case they hadn't been staked at all, kind of an oversight at the old Q.C. area of the plant, 3 Colt M-4s and one Armalite. I just haven't seen the amount of failure all this talk about staking seems to indicate. I know of two high end builders that use only the little dimples in 3 places and have never had a problem. One blasphemous guy uses high temp red Loc-Tite and has never had a key come loose even in full auto guns that have seen several barrels.
We do agree that you don't work for DPMS though, and they do ship dry.
We do agree that you dislike Bushmaster and yet you seem to regurgitate the same old stuff some one told some one who knew a guy who....well we get it. I think no personal experience is involved, although I always thought an "incorrect twist" would get you thrown out of a dance contest! KurtM
What is an improperly staked carrier key? I know what the consensus is BUT is that the ONLY way? I can count on one hand the number of loose keys I have seen...admitedly from once again a very small number of rifles/carbines, and in every case they hadn't been staked at all, kind of an oversight at the old Q.C. area of the plant, 3 Colt M-4s and one Armalite. I just haven't seen the amount of failure all this talk about staking seems to indicate. I know of two high end builders that use only the little dimples in 3 places and have never had a problem. One blasphemous guy uses high temp red Loc-Tite and has never had a key come loose even in full auto guns that have seen several barrels.
We do agree that you don't work for DPMS though, and they do ship dry.
We do agree that you dislike Bushmaster and yet you seem to regurgitate the same old stuff some one told some one who knew a guy who....well we get it. I think no personal experience is involved, although I always thought an "incorrect twist" would get you thrown out of a dance contest! KurtM
Guys, Don't get me wrong here, I am not ANTI Mil Spec. If two bolt and carrier setups were laying side by side and I knew one was mil spec and the other I didn't know I would grab the mil spec. Would I buy a mil spec barrel...YES but for burning out not for general use, WHY? Because I want more out of my barrels than can be provided by a mil spec barrel. I also would buy any of the ABCS parts without reservation. I also wouldn't touch the mil spec bolt and carrier if a good J.P. unit was on the table next to it. I would NEVER run a mil spec trigger...unless it is in a full auto gun and even then I have run J.P.s in them as well. There was a time when in order to get quality parts it was advised to buy Mil Spec, but these days anything you get from a major manufacturer is good gear. Does anyone really think that Bushmaster doesn't do all they can to make a good rifle when they know DPMS, SABER, ARMALITE and a host of other makers could take away all their market? DO you really think DPMS would continue to make junk?
As for a rifle or carbine that "has to work" that is up to you! For a rifle I depend on, it is fired often, it is cleaned and oil more often and everytimne I have it apart it is thouroughly inspected and all screws and fasteners checked, and any wear part CLOSELY inspected....it matters not who made it in todays world, if it has survived the intitial 1000 rounds you are adequate to travel....which is "non operator" for "Good to Go". KurtM
As for a rifle or carbine that "has to work" that is up to you! For a rifle I depend on, it is fired often, it is cleaned and oil more often and everytimne I have it apart it is thouroughly inspected and all screws and fasteners checked, and any wear part CLOSELY inspected....it matters not who made it in todays world, if it has survived the intitial 1000 rounds you are adequate to travel....which is "non operator" for "Good to Go". KurtM
