question for the Christ believers

[okcBob]

The older we get, the more we contemplate our mortality. After retiring from over 40 yrs in health care, I still remember what a terminal patient told me back in the 80’s. I asked him how he was doing today. He said “same as always. Tired of living, but too scared to die”. He is one of the few patients out of thousands I’ve had that I still remember his name & face.
Depression & anxiety are treatable & many patients don’t seek treatment for it for a variety of reasons. I’ve always urged patients to address it with their docs.

 

[THAT Gurl]

I took it as joking, no harm no foul. It saddens me that a thread I started caused conflict between members here .Everyone here I have met( there have been many) were good people ,just because we don't agree on everything doesn't make us enemies.

I asked the original question because I believe Jesus is my Lord and Savior and have always been taught it is a sin to kill yourself. Now I find myself in constant pain and sickness with the very real prospect of dying a horrible death and to be honest I'm terrified . in some ways I feel like I'm being punished for things I did in my past and it is well deserved. I have repented and ask for forgiveness,but maybe the suffering is the price I must pay

Kendall, I can't be with you and yours as you walk thru this in body, but I most certainly can in spirit. And I believe that we humans have abilities far outside our understanding in that regard. Those abilities do not make us any less Christian, regardless of what some people may think.

Your illness has hit Grumpy particularly hard. I'm not telling you nothing you don't already know about having sick and/or dying friends. I think of Paul every day and how many lives he touched and how lucky you and I (and many others) were for him to have called us his friends. I take comfort (and you should also) that it would not surprise me in the least if he was the first person to meet you at the Gates of Heaven. Somehow, someway, he will talk that favor outta Peter and anyone else he needs to.

You remember when those meds made me suicidal and bought me a hospital stay until they could get it all sorted out?? Well, right after that tree fell on me and I was pretty banged up and the docs were telling me I was the best I was gonna be (and trust me, it wasn't all that good IMHO) I thought about checking out again. As foreign as those thoughts were to me the first time around, the second time they were ... Well ... I dunno ... "Easier" to consider. I dunno if that makes any sense to anyone but that is just how it's been for me. My biggest fear in this life is that I will become a burden to ANYONE. I'm not having it.

But this time I also got to considering how me moving to whatever is next for us would affect those I love. And, though there is only a handful of folks who care, what they would think about me leaving unannounced like that. I don't know that I could do that to Grumpy. To be honest, I don't think he would ever move on from it. Not because I'm special, or easy to get along with or any of that other worldy stuff us humans consider to be important but because I have come to believe that when we lose a loved one a literal piece of our spirit goes with them. We are individuals but we also a part of a much larger ... Uhmmm ... I dunno how to exactly describe it but I feel like we are tied together in the heart and the loss of a loved one is not something we recover from. Especially if they leave us too soon.

What I am trying to say -- and many here will think I'm being inappropriate but tough titty -- is as hard as this is for you and your darling bride (and the rest of us who are "just" buddies) I do believe there is a purpose here. Do I know what it is? No -- sorry bud. I'm not that smart. Wish I was.

I do believe there comes a point in most of our lives where those that love us should not be angry or hurt should we decide to move on. But I have come to learn through my life experiences that pain and suffering probably shouldn't be the MAIN influencing factor in that decision. So ... Might I suggest when you are having discussions with yourself, and are pondering if maybe now is the time to leave all this behind, try to NOT let your physical pain influence your thought process too much. I know it's a lot to ask giving how much pain I can only imagine you are in right now. And it is hard. Trust me, I know. But also know that you CAN do it -- and your decision when you consider everything else first and factor in the pain last, will leave you much less conflicted. Or at least it has worked out that way for me so far. I don't want to leave anyone any reason to look back on a life lived with me and have regrets or sad memories. I don't want to leave anyone wondering if my passing was somehow their fault, or if they did or didn't do or say something that caused me to decide to leave here. I believe when our work here is done, we will know it. And I also believe that God will not hold it against anyone should they come to the decision that their work here is finished. We have free will. We also have that internal conversation with both the good and the bad in all of us. You will know if your decision, in the end is honorable or not. And any decision made with honorable intent is not a sin. IMHO.

Do I still believe in self-determination and the right to end your own life? Oh yes. Most definitely. I just think that in the process of making that decision for ourselves sometimes we focus on the wrong thing (the pain or inconvenience) of how our lives are going at the time. Or the inevitable end that we see coming -- but in all honesty we should ALL feel that way all the time but instead we all feel like we have forever (until we don't. Thanks again Paul. Sigh) until all this "big" stuff is right in front of us ...

 

[osu007]

And. HAPPY BIRTHDAY TO MRS. SADDLEBUM…..

 

[alank2]

I pray for strength and peace for you today saddlebum; I hope it is a good day with your wife!

 

[osu007]

Kendall, I can't be with you and yours as you walk thru this in body, but I most certainly can in spirit. And I believe that we humans have abilities far outside our understanding in that regard. Those abilities do not make us any less Christian, regardless of what some people may think.

Your illness has hit Grumpy particularly hard. I'm not telling you nothing you don't already know about having sick and/or dying friends. I think of Paul every day and how many lives he touched and how lucky you and I (and many others) were for him to have called us his friends. I take comfort (and you should also) that it would not surprise me in the least if he was the first person to meet you at the Gates of Heaven. Somehow, someway, he will talk that favor outta Peter and anyone else he needs to.

You remember when those meds made me suicidal and bought me a hospital stay until they could get it all sorted out?? Well, right after that tree fell on me and I was pretty banged up and the docs were telling me I was the best I was gonna be (and trust me, it wasn't all that good IMHO) I thought about checking out again. As foreign as those thoughts were to me the first time around, the second time they were ... Well ... I dunno ... "Easier" to consider. I dunno if that makes any sense to anyone but that is just how it's been for me. My biggest fear in this life is that I will become a burden to ANYONE. I'm not having it.

But this time I also got to considering how me moving to whatever is next for us would affect those I love. And, though there is only a handful of folks who care, what they would think about me leaving unannounced like that. I don't know that I could do that to Grumpy. To be honest, I don't think he would ever move on from it. Not because I'm special, or easy to get along with or any of that other worldy stuff us humans consider to be important but because I have come to believe that when we lose a loved one a literal piece of our spirit goes with them. We are individuals but we also a part of a much larger ... Uhmmm ... I dunno how to exactly describe it but I feel like we are tied together in the heart and the loss of a loved one is not something we recover from. Especially if they leave us too soon.

What I am trying to say -- and many here will think I'm being inappropriate but tough titty -- is as hard as this is for you and your darling bride (and the rest of us who are "just" buddies) I do believe there is a purpose here. Do I know what it is? No -- sorry bud. I'm not that smart. Wish I was.

I do believe there comes a point in most of our lives where those that love us should not be angry or hurt should we decide to move on. But I have come to learn through my life experiences that pain and suffering probably shouldn't be the MAIN influencing factor in that decision. So ... Might I suggest when you are having discussions with yourself, and are pondering if maybe now is the time to leave all this behind, try to NOT let your physical pain influence your thought process too much. I know it's a lot to ask giving how much pain I can only imagine you are in right now. And it is hard. Trust me, I know. But also know that you CAN do it -- and your decision when you consider everything else first and factor in the pain last, will leave you much less conflicted. Or at least it has worked out that way for me so far. I don't want to leave anyone any reason to look back on a life lived with me and have regrets or sad memories. I don't want to leave anyone wondering if my passing was somehow their fault, or if they did or didn't do or say something that caused me to decide to leave here. I believe when our work here is done, we will know it. And I also believe that God will not hold it against anyone should they come to the decision that their work here is finished. We have free will. We also have that internal conversation with both the good and the bad in all of us. You will know if your decision, in the end is honorable or not. And any decision made with honorable intent is not a sin. IMHO.

Do I still believe in self-determination and the right to end your own life? Oh yes. Most definitely. I just think that in the process of making that decision for ourselves sometimes we focus on the wrong thing (the pain or inconvenience) of how our lives are going at the time. Or the inevitable end that we see coming -- but in all honesty we should ALL feel that way all the time but instead we all feel like we have forever (until we don't. Thanks again Paul. Sigh) until all this "big" stuff is right in front of us ...

Good morning Saddlebum. Hope the birthday was a good one for your little bride, and the leg is getting back to normal size. Hang in there my brother. I say this and I truly mean it. If I could put you pain on me I gladly would. I absolutely hate liars, thieves, and for people to be in pain. I am praying for God to STOP THIS CANCER. In the name of Jesus. God can do it. He has done it for others. Be Blessed my brother.

 

[saddlebum]

Kendall, I can't be with you and yours as you walk thru this in body, but I most certainly can in spirit. And I believe that we humans have abilities far outside our understanding in that regard. Those abilities do not make us any less Christian, regardless of what some people may think.

Your illness has hit Grumpy particularly hard. I'm not telling you nothing you don't already know about having sick and/or dying friends. I think of Paul every day and how many lives he touched and how lucky you and I (and many others) were for him to have called us his friends. I take comfort (and you should also) that it would not surprise me in the least if he was the first person to meet you at the Gates of Heaven. Somehow, someway, he will talk that favor outta Peter and anyone else he needs to.

You remember when those meds made me suicidal and bought me a hospital stay until they could get it all sorted out?? Well, right after that tree fell on me and I was pretty banged up and the docs were telling me I was the best I was gonna be (and trust me, it wasn't all that good IMHO) I thought about checking out again. As foreign as those thoughts were to me the first time around, the second time they were ... Well ... I dunno ... "Easier" to consider. I dunno if that makes any sense to anyone but that is just how it's been for me. My biggest fear in this life is that I will become a burden to ANYONE. I'm not having it.

But this time I also got to considering how me moving to whatever is next for us would affect those I love. And, though there is only a handful of folks who care, what they would think about me leaving unannounced like that. I don't know that I could do that to Grumpy. To be honest, I don't think he would ever move on from it. Not because I'm special, or easy to get along with or any of that other worldy stuff us humans consider to be important but because I have come to believe that when we lose a loved one a literal piece of our spirit goes with them. We are individuals but we also a part of a much larger ... Uhmmm ... I dunno how to exactly describe it but I feel like we are tied together in the heart and the loss of a loved one is not something we recover from. Especially if they leave us too soon.

What I am trying to say -- and many here will think I'm being inappropriate but tough titty -- is as hard as this is for you and your darling bride (and the rest of us who are "just" buddies) I do believe there is a purpose here. Do I know what it is? No -- sorry bud. I'm not that smart. Wish I was.

I do believe there comes a point in most of our lives where those that love us should not be angry or hurt should we decide to move on. But I have come to learn through my life experiences that pain and suffering probably shouldn't be the MAIN influencing factor in that decision. So ... Might I suggest when you are having discussions with yourself, and are pondering if maybe now is the time to leave all this behind, try to NOT let your physical pain influence your thought process too much. I know it's a lot to ask giving how much pain I can only imagine you are in right now. And it is hard. Trust me, I know. But also know that you CAN do it -- and your decision when you consider everything else first and factor in the pain last, will leave you much less conflicted. Or at least it has worked out that way for me so far. I don't want to leave anyone any reason to look back on a life lived with me and have regrets or sad memories. I don't want to leave anyone wondering if my passing was somehow their fault, or if they did or didn't do or say something that caused me to decide to leave here. I believe when our work here is done, we will know it. And I also believe that God will not hold it against anyone should they come to the decision that their work here is finished. We have free will. We also have that internal conversation with both the good and the bad in all of us. You will know if your decision, in the end is honorable or not. And any decision made with honorable intent is not a sin. IMHO.

Do I still believe in self-determination and the right to end your own life? Oh yes. Most definitely. I just think that in the process of making that decision for ourselves sometimes we focus on the wrong thing (the pain or inconvenience) of how our lives are going at the time. Or the inevitable end that we see coming -- but in all honesty we should ALL feel that way all the time but instead we all feel like we have forever (until we don't. Thanks again Paul. Sigh) until all this "big" stuff is right in front of us ...

Thanks Patti ,you and " grumpy" have always been some of my favorite people. Paul loved ya'll and so do I

 

[T. MIKE SMITH]

Do you believe if a person ends their own life that precludes you from going to Heaven? in cases where people have intense suffering I wonder if God would hold it against them

I believe that only God can answer your question- it's well proven that what man thinks is often wrong and just their opinion, on almost everything

 

[T. MIKE SMITH]

I really, really hesitate to get involved here, and I'm not going to debate it, but...

Both the Catholic and Jewish faith (notice: both are not "Christ believers") teach that your body does not belong to you. It belongs to God.

The Catholics go one step further, and teach that your life is not yours to start or end. It belongs to God. Hench the Catholic teaching that suicide is a Mortal Sin, stopping one from achieving Heaven.

The only thing you own is your free will.

"He made them in His image."

Which is translated by both religions to signify that your body is something holy. Hence the Jewish proscription against tattoos.

I have never prescribed to either view, but that's probably one of the many, many reasons why I'm an adherent to neither religion.

just wonder what your source is in believing Catholics are not believers in Christ

 

[bigred1]

just wonder what your source is in believing Catholics are not believers in Christ

Oh no......don't get that started again!

 

[THAT Gurl]

Oh no......don't get that started again!

God -- NO kidding!!