Rifle training pictures

[Nonsensitive]

Food for thought. The guns officers use are "Tools". When officers face armed, violent criminal offenders located beyond the typical effective handgun range, the handgun obviously is not the prefered tool of choice. Officers have carried shotguns forever. A shotgun is a very versitile tool. It has many applications. Shotguns however, are not always the best tool. It’s unrealistic and dangerous to expect officers in high stress, life-threatening situations, to direct aimed, accurate handgun or shotgun fire beyond their effective distances. It is better at longer distances to use a patrol rifle for accuracy if nothing else. Especially if the bad guy has a rifle. There is no reason however to not use the rifle at closer ranges as long as over penetration is addressed. For self defense, accuracy and first round knock down is what everyone is looking for. Remember though, Police Officers are called to defend others, not just themselves. If called to stop an active shooter for example, a rifle is nice to have. How many examples are there now of individuals walking in with both handguns and long guns and shooting as many people as they can, just because they can? Why would an officer not need a rifle; vest; helmet; protective eyewear; as much ammo on them as possible; etc, if they can get it. Maybe that is what makes them look like "Military". Military goes for useful and practical equipment. Why shouldn't Law Enforcement use practical and useful equipment? Failure to train and equip PATROL OFFICERS - the first responders - (Not SWAT Officers) - with needed equipment can place the public and police at a deadly disadvantage. Why be at a disadvantage?

"Don't bring a KNIFE to a GUN FIGHT"

 

[Nonsensitive]

Thanks ef9turbo. I feel better now.


NINJA PUPPY SAYS:

"DON'T BRING A KNIFE TO A GUN FIGHT"

 

[penismightier]

WTH? Get that cute little puppy out of your avatar and put your tacticool rifle picture back up! We gotta look good for the internet commandos!

Fixed mine muhahahaah

 

[ef9turbo]

Fixed mine muhahahaah

 

[penismightier]

<------------ There now I've got a tacticool avatar!

 

[ef9turbo]

<------------ There now I've got a tacticool avatar!

MUCH BETTER!

 

[arenathlete]

You guys continue to refer to these SHTF scenarios, could you be more specific and site some recent ones please???
Let me find ones you've referenced:

your basic gun toting rednecks & regular LE must train/equip themselves to address the issues that arise.

most people we encounter will have bolt rifles with scopes with larger calibers and know the terrain MUCH better then we do.

Okay, so you're waiting for the "South will rise again" insurgency??? If that's the case why shoot the 5.56NATO?

In all reality, if I could, I'd be carrying around more firepower.

So would I, but then again, I ain't the police; so I must be one of those gun-toting rednecks.

Some things are just better off left alone.

It really blows my mind that someone who is part of a gun forum is saying that Police need LESS firepower......

This is exactly the type of discussion that needs to occur on a gunboard, where else can we argue these points???

Areanathlete, you state only SWAT cops should have ARs, if that is your belief then why do you (or did) own one?

BTW, I never said SWAT was the only ones that need a ar-15; I dropped the 5.56NATO for the 7.62NATO because I'm a fat-body and if SHTF for me, I'm a BIG target so I'll at least give them 5 minutes of hell

When officers face armed, violent criminal offenders located beyond the typical effective handgun range, the handgun obviously is not the preferred tool of choice.

If all they had were handguns the bad guys could pick them off from a distance and get gone before anybody knew what happened.

Again, far-reaching scenarios that have such a low statistical occurrence, yet they keep being brought up as common-place situations.

Why would you risk peoples lives with a huge dynamic entry and shootout when you can negotiate with the person and have them walk out on their own? Not every situation calls for "aww hell just shoot his ass..."

The CO on-site should've given a green light to the sniper, unless you have some seasoned operators then I wouldn't do an entry. And Aw...hell yes they should've shot that bastard.

Now let me ask you a question, if you were an LEO, wouldn't you want gear and training available to you?

Yes, of course; but you're gearing up for scenarios that you have a 0.0001% chance of actually pulling the trigger on a carbine, aren't there some other more pressing issues to be training???

Let me finish by saying this: I appreciate law enforcement, in fact, I think pay should be doubled immediately for the job you are asked to perform but I would also squash all pensions.
We should pay up-front for the work you guys put in and not make you wait on pensions, but I digress.

 

[ef9turbo]

You guys continue to refer to these SHTF scenarios, could you be more specific and site some recent ones please???

We refer to incase SHTF scenarios.


Okay, so you're waiting for the "South will rise again" insurgency??? If that's the case why shoot the 5.56NATO?

We didn't state anything about the South rising. We were stating OUR jurisdiction and reasons why we need them.

Again, far-reaching scenarios that have such a low statistical occurrence, yet they keep being brought up as common-place situations.

Never once brought it up as a common-place occurrence.

Yes, of course; but you're gearing up for scenarios that you have a 0.0001% chance of actually pulling the trigger on a carbine, aren't there some other more pressing issues to be training???

Who said we didn't train other things? Hell, I've gone to "Writing better reports and probable cause affidavits", "Beginning Spanish for LEO", "Digital Photography". I've also taken higher speed training like "High risk search warrant execution" and I paid for with my own money and supplied my own ammo for the rifle course. Why? If I ever get into those .00001% shootouts and have to gear up with my military style gear and my AR, I can at least testify in court that yes, I have taken CLEET accredited Basic Rifle.

Let me finish by saying this: I appreciate law enforcement, in fact, I think pay should be doubled immediately for the job you are asked to perform.

Thank you for the appreciation.

I also want to say, we aren't being forced to train the way we do, we do it because our lives depend on it. I pay extra for training like basic rifle for my wife, my future children and the good people in this dangerous corrupted world. You know, for those .00001% SHTF occurrences.

...........

 

[bettingpython]

Kick ass Eli, looking good.

Nice carbine, ef9turbo. I saw that 45 degree handgrip mod at a urban rifle class I took last month. Wondered if it was more ergonomic for a shooters' support hand.

I had a very nice Tango down QD VFG on my AR, the very first thing I did after taking TDSA's tactical carbine course was ditch it and buy the AFG. It is very ergonomic, and just feels natural.

 

[penismightier]

You guys continue to refer to these SHTF scenarios, could you be more specific and site some recent ones please???
Let me find ones you've referenced:

1. We were dispatched to a domestic violence call in the Southern end of the county. Suspect was heavily armed with SKS and hunting rifles. Shots had been fired by suspect at victim. Suspect is a known survivalist. Suspect went into hiding in the woods and had threatened a shootout if LE did not leave the area. Perimeter was setup approximately 1 sq mile area that was heavily wooded in center, but large open field areas on border of perimeter. Rifle is/was better choice of tool to use.

2. Dispatched to a manhunt. Suspect was armed with long rifle in marijuana field surrounded by heavily wooded area. Suspect was mexican national who had threatened shootout. Perimeter ~1 sq mile, same situation with open areas around woods. Again, rifle is most adequate tool to use.

That good enough for you?

Okay, so you're waiting for the "South will rise again" insurgency??? If that's the case why shoot the 5.56NATO?

Really? All I stated is that the people in this area are usually better armed than we are. No one stated that the militias are coming to get us....

As far as 5.56 vs XXXXX........ Who cares what I shoot? It gets the job done when I need it to!

BTW, I never said SWAT was the only ones that need a ar-15; I dropped the 5.56NATO for the 7.62NATO because I'm a fat-body and if SHTF for me, I'm a BIG target so I'll at least give them 5 minutes of hell

So you're giving Eli grief about his rig being "overboard" but yet you're arming yourself in case zombies attack you??

Again, far-reaching scenarios that have such a low statistical occurrence, yet they keep being brought up as common-place situations.

These situations might happen every once in a while, but they DO happen. What difference does it make how often it happens? The US Military has plans in case foreign powers start lobbing missiles our way, now according to your principle they should just shut down the defense systems and forget it because they are such a low statistical occurrence...right?

The CO on-site should've given a green light to the sniper, unless you have some seasoned operators then I wouldn't do an entry. And Aw...hell yes they should've shot that bastard.

Once again, refer to minimal force necessary. The guy was talked down, nothing further was needed. If the person is no longer a threat, then we will not engage them as one.

Yes, of course; but you're gearing up for scenarios that you have a 0.0001% chance of actually pulling the trigger on a carbine, aren't there some other more pressing issues to be training???

I'm more for training for everything, and only having to use some, then training for some and wishing I had trained for everything