Well said Woody
Y'all quit sniping at each others opinions.Yeah... I can see where that might be confusing. [/sarcasm]
What we know is that the holster was empty. Anything else about it is conjecture. We do not know why the holster was empty nor do we know when the gun was drawn, or if it was even being pointed at the police. An investigation is not going to be able to answer the 'why' and 'when', considering that the individual is now deceased.
I retract my earlier statements regarding the holster. It’s empty in the picture.
The officer didn’t yell “HOLSTER, HOLSTER,HOLSTER” if he had not seen a firearm. He could not have seen a gun on the driver’s floorboard with the driver sitting there. I think it’s safe to assume there was a gun either in the holster or being drawn. Transferring his phone to his left hand, thus freeing his right hand before the “GUN” warning is another factor. Officers are not trained to allow a suspect to draw a weapon and point it at them before taking action. I conclude the gene pool in Farmington is somewhat more intelligent as a result of this encounter.
Officers are trained to yell 'gun' multiple times even if they just suspect that one might be a potential threat to them. There certainly have been enough documented killings of people suspected of having a firearm, when it was discovered afterword that the 'threat' was a cell phone. a comb, or some other innocuous item that they mistook for a gun. Spotting an empty holster would probably be enough to send the Officers into an 'as trained' mode where muscle memory takes over.
It is quite possible that the driver put the gun on the passenger floor, well out of reach, just to avoid any possible overreaction by an Officer, but it turned into a fuster-cluck anyway when the Officer spotted the empty holster still on the driver and made a split-second assumption that the driver had pulled his gun.
Only mistake made was the driver trying to play the 'Sovereign Citizen' BS in a relatively conservative state like UTAH.
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A later online post (not on this forum) shows a picture of the gun on the DRIVERS side floor and certainly within reach of the driver. It is also doubtful at least to me that the officer could have seen the empty holster on the right side of the driver from the left side view he had. It's more likely that a gun in hand would be much more visible from the officers observation point. My opinion anyway.
None of us know what actually happened but it is not out of the question the 'Sovereign Citizen' MAY have pulled the pistol from the holster and dropped it prior to shooting upon being shot multiple times. It's also possible a bad cop could have placed the gun on the floorboard to cover their actions.
Not any cop is perfect and some are far from it. Not all citizens - like this individual - comply with officers. Nothing I saw in the video or later posts here or elsewhere suggest a mistaken object for a gun at least that I have seen. Maybe that happened here but I think likely not.
If I am pulled over and carrying my hands are at 10 & 2 and I politely tell the officer I have a weapon and ask for direction on how to proceed. Not saying this 'Sovereign Citizen' is solely at fault but he certainly acted in a manner that played a significant role in this sad outcome - my opinion anyway.
It is unfortunate that the officers had to shoot the young man. This all could have been avoided had the young man simply obeyed the law and followed the commands of the VERY patient RO.
you are really going to go there. with all those cops around one of them a sgt and all them recording you really think any cop is going to throw down a gun. i thought before when you said lets drop it you might have some sense but you lost me here. im not saying all cops are good because i know they aint but what you said is crazy in this situation. i think its time you give it a rest.
Have you always struggled with reading comprehension @CountryLivin' ?
I said "None of us know what actually happened but it is not out of the question the 'Sovereign Citizen' MAY have pulled the pistol from the holster and dropped it prior to shooting upon being shot multiple times" and I further said "Not saying this 'Sovereign Citizen' is solely at fault but he certainly acted in a manner that played a significant role in this sad outcome - my opinion anyway."
I simply listed possibilities as to what may have happened and I am pretty sure everyone but you understands that. For the record I don't feel the police acted in an inappropriate manner or were at fault. That simple enough for you?
So I'll end with saying to you as well you are not worth continuing a discussion with.
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