Talk To Me About 922r Compliance

[zghorner]

I might know a guy that knows a guy that has 4 Russian shotguns that might not be 922r compliant...hell from what ive read simply changing the factory 5rd mag with a high cap mag makes it non compliant so 90% of the saigas listed for sale are NON compliant correct? same goes for the MAK-90s pictured with 30rd mags not to mention non-thumbhole stocks. Never ever hear of anything coming of it though....Does anyone know of a case or charge against someone for having a non 922r compliant firearm? I feel like if you posted pictures saying "hey I converted this post '86 gun to full auto using a surplus sear I found" you would have some black suits show up at your door.

I remember reading a pretty cool thread over at FALfiles about 922r: My ATF Letter

From what I've gathered...the person who "manufactures" (modifies) the gun into non 922r compliant form is responsible...but since it is very difficult to prove who did the modification it will not be pursued?

Usually in these types of threads someone pops off with something like "no known cases, but I don't want to be the first" or "i don't want to be the one they make an example of". which is a reasonable argument to me...the last thing any gun guy or gal wants is a run in with the ATF.

So what say you OSA? I know their are some pretty stinkin smart legal beagles on here that I would love to learn from on this issue.

 

[OKNewshawk]

922r compliance depends only on the number of foreign-manufactured parts in the firearm. If the Russian shotgun is 922r compliant with the five round magazine, then removing or replacing the magazine with another one does not change the 922r compliance status of the shotgun. This is according to a summary of 922r compliance I found on the Tapco website here: TAPCO - Section 922r Compliance. I'd like to know if I'm mistaken in this assertion.

 

[Fyrtwuck]

922r is another of the federal laws attempting to control guns.

I have NEVER heard or read about anyone being charged or arrested for not have the correct number of required parts in their guns. I have also NEVER heard or read of a BATFE agent inspecting anyone's gun for the proper amount and type of parts. How many agents or individuals can actually identify what is what? I feel like I'm doing good to be able to identify semi parts from full auto in an AR or an M1 carbine.

Just like the 1994-2004 assault weapon and magazine capacity ban. Was anyone ever charged or arrested? If the magazines were not marked, how could you tell?

These are two of the totally stupid laws that our politicians waste our tax money on to make the anti-gun people feel like have made a victory and progress against pro-gun.

 

[zghorner]

922r compliance depends only on the number of foreign-manufactured parts in the firearm. If the Russian shotgun is 922r compliant with the five round magazine, then removing or replacing the magazine with another one does not change the 922r compliance status of the shotgun. This is according to a summary of 922r compliance I found on the Tapco website here: TAPCO - Section 922r Compliance. I'd like to know if I'm mistaken in this assertion.

This was taken from another forum talking about hi cap mags and the mak 90:

Look guys, it has nothing to do with the now defunct '94 Assault Weapon Ban, bayonet lugs, or flash hiders etc. Because of the way ATF has interpreted the 922r law, each time you insert a mag you are "assembling" a firearm. At that point the 922r test applies and Chinese 30rd mags in an all-Chinese rifle is more than 10 imported parts.

As far as a MAK90 goes you would have to prove (after seizure) that your rifle was imported (not just sold to you) with 30rd mags and thus "assembling" it with 30rd mags today is the same "importable" configuration it came with. Good luck with that.

as for saiga shotguns I found this from dinzag...

You have a Saiga-12 shotgun. (15 parts) You don't want to convert it, but you want to run some 10 round mags or that new drum. You will need 5 U.S. made parts to make it a U.S. firearm since running a magazine with more than 5 rounds violates 922(r). A U.S. made mag will be 3 parts, then a piston and a handguard will make it legal.

 

[Catt57]

Dealt with this on a Chinese SKS. Bayonet was already removed so only had to get it down by 3 more parts. I wanted to keep the original style stock and the option to use the original fixed magazine so that made it difficult. I ended up replacing the only other 3 parts I could find US made: the trigger, hammer, and sear installed in a spare trigger assembly. I found a US made muzzle brake/flash hider and made my own custom stock extension. I then found a hand guard and put the original stock and hand guard away in storage. Added a scope mount and scope. It shoots great and can be taken back to fully original within 30 minutes.

Odds are no one would ever know if it wasn't compliant. But it makes for cheap headache insurance.

 

[dennishoddy]

I have an Akudal 1919 12ga that needed to become compliant.
I bought a kit in a little bag that consisted of an Oring, some screws, and a couple of other Items to swap out that made it legal. Stupid law that needs to be rescinded.
I'm with ^^^^^ never saw an ATF agent anywhere tearing guns down and checking for parts, but I swapped them out just in case.

 

[henschman]

922r is very rarely proseuted. The few times it has been, it is a charge that is tacked onto a lager case for more blatant violations like possession of unregistered machine guns, etc. The reason it isn't prosecuted much is that it is very hard to prove a case under 922r... it is nearly unenforceable in most cases. It is very hard to prove the country of origin of many parts. Foreign parts can simply be stamped "US" or refinished and no one could tell the difference. Also as was mentioned, 922r doesn't prohibit the possession of a noncompliant gun... it prohibits the manufacture of one. As always in a criminal prosecution, the gov't has the burden of proof... so not only would they have to prove beyond a reasonable doubt the country of origin of a sufficient number of the parts, but also that the accused is the one who manufactured it in that configuration.

Now the ATF has claimed that changing out an original low capacity magazine for a standard capacity one on a foreign rifle constitutes "maufacturing" a gun. A court has never ruled on this, and it's not the sort of thing the DOJ likes to litigate... they prefer to allow the ATF to cow everyone into submission by threatening prosecution according to their interpretation of the law, and are rarely challenged on it due to the excessively high penalties and mandatory minimums the laws carry. The DOJ chooses how they prosecute cases carefully so as to avoid exposing these more tenuous agency interpretations to judicial review as much as possible, and the vast majority of their cases result in a guilty plea... so these issues almost never make it in front of a judge.

In any case, it so unlikely that a federal agent would ever have legal justification to inspect one of your guns and have the expertise to analyze the parts for country of origin that the law should not cause much if any anxiety among the shooting public. Basically you won't be scrutinized under it unless you are committing other, more blatant violations of federal law to attract attention to you and your guns.

 

[tulsamal]

922r doesn't prohibit the possession of a noncompliant gun... it prohibits the manufacture of one. As always in a criminal prosecution, the gov't has the burden of proof... so not only would they have to prove beyond a reasonable doubt the country of origin of a sufficient number of the parts, but also that the accused is the one who manufactured it in that configuration.

And there is the key point. Century would be crazy to sell guns that put together with all foreign parts. But once the rifle is in the hands of consumers... it's like trying to say what tires are legal to put on your truck. I personally wouldn't build an FAL that was non-compliant... but if I was at a gunshow and some guy offered to sell me a basic FAL for $600... I would be tempted to act dumb and buy it. Providing the guy didn't talk about how it was non-compliant... then I would suspect entrapment.