Thinking of starting an AR build. Which lower?

[ripnbst]

You guys can argue specs and quality control all you want, but you're never gonna find anything better than a Del-ton lower.

First of all, Thanks for the laugh.

Nikat,

I will agree with some of what you said but some of it I don't so for the sake of this thread, I agree to disagree on certain aspects.

If the part meets print AND is made of the specified material AND is subjected to the specified testing criteria AND is inspected/approved by a government representative, then it is Mil-Spec. Almost nothing on the civilian market is truely "Mil-Spec". That term is tossed around far too freely.

A good print specifies material in the title block and the testing criteria it must pass in drawing notes. Example- Material: A2 Steel per Mil-R-123XYZ.

Whether or not it needs to be inspected by a government representative I am unaware of. Perhaps on the first run ever as a step in the supplier qualification process. Stuff on the civvy market isn't true Mil-Spec because true Mil-Spec, in the case of lower recievers, are generally select fire and it's illegal to have select fire trigger groups so going to the extra effort to make the lower accept a select fire trigger group isn't worth it. Spike's Tactical does still sell Select Fire lowers to the Civ market though as do some others.

 

[CAR-AR-M16]

A good print specifies material in the title block and the testing criteria it must pass in drawing notes. Example- Material: A2 Steel per Mil-R-123XYZ.

Whether or not it needs to be inspected by a government representative I am unaware of. Perhaps on the first run ever as a step in the supplier qualification process. Stuff on the civvy market isn't true Mil-Spec because true Mil-Spec, in the case of lower recievers, are generally select fire and it's illegal to have select fire trigger groups so going to the extra effort to make the lower accept a select fire trigger group isn't worth it. Spike's Tactical does still sell Select Fire lowers to the Civ market though as do some others.

I am not trying to argue with you, just trying to point out that most stuff that is said to be "mil-spec" is not.

A true Mil-Spec might specify that ALL Barrels and Bolts will be magnetic particle inspected and proof load fired. If company XYZ only does this to every other Barrel and Bolt, then they cannot say that their parts meet "mil-spec".

Also, the mil-spec may say that every 50th part will be tested to destruction to verfy strength, meterials, etc.. If company XYZ does not do this, then again, they cannot say their parts meet "mil-spec".

If the mil-spec says that a certain part must be inspected by an Ordnance Corps officer for compliance, then again, company XYZ cannot say their parts meet "mil-spec".

Just remember one thing, mil-spec is a minimum standard. There are a lot of parts that are probably better than "mil-spec".

Lastly, you are correct in that no lower can be truly "mil-spec" unless it is select fire, but just because a lower is select fire does not mean it is mil-spec. Here is a picture of one of my lower receivers and it is select fire, but it is NOT mil-spec (and yes, it is properly registered).

 

[twoguns?]

So...a drill and die set ..plus a grinder/dremmel...and it fits properly/correctly

 

[streak]

so you guys ever decide on a decent lower to suggest to the OP or would you two like to continue to trash and fill up this guys thread with your BS. Take it to another thread.

 

[dieseltech09]

Dont know if this is current but thought Id post it anyway.

Who makes my lower?

Lewis Machine & Tool
LMT
Lauer
DS Arms
PWA
Eagle
Armalite
Knights Armament
Barrett

Continental Machine Tool
Stag
Rock River Arms
High Standard
Noveske
Century (New)
Global Tactical
CLE
S&W
MGI
Wilson Tactical
Grenadier Precision
Colt

LAR Manufacturing
LAR
Bushmaster
Ameetec
DPMS
CMMG
Double Star
Fulton Armory
Spike's Tactical

JVP
Double Star
LRB
Charles Daly

Mega Machine Shop
Mega
GSE
Dalphon
POF
Alexander Arms

Olympic
Olympic
SGW
Tromix
Palmetto
Dalphon
Frankford
Century (Old)

Sun Devil
Sun Devil forged billet receivers

Superior
Superior Arms
Lauer (New)

Aero Precision
Aero Precision

 

[CAR-AR-M16]

so you guys ever decide on a decent lower to suggest to the OP or would you two like to continue to trash and fill up this guys thread with your BS. Take it to another thread.

Sir, I am sorry if you think this discussion is "trash" or "BS", but this is a discussion forum and we were discussing what determines if something is a quality part or not. I do not see where this thread drifted so far off of what the OP asked that you had to resort to name calling. If you had actually read the thread you should have seen that my first post stated that I thought pretty much any lower would be fine. IMHO you should invest in a quality barrel, BCG and FCG. Please let us know your recommendations.

 

[Glocktogo]

IMHO, the lower receiver itself (as long as it is in spec) is the least important part of the rifle, so I would go with the least expensive one you can find. Spend the money on the best barrel, BCG and FCG you can afford. YMMV

This. I'd get a Loki lower if you want an Oklahoma rifle. I put one of their lowers together and it was nice. Otherwise, a Palmetto State, Aero or AIM surplus, would be my next choice in that order.

 

[streak]

in post 13 i said they are all pretty close to the same and recommended going to see superdave to get set up. I called no one any names. I merely pointed out that you two had pretty much gotten into a pissing contest. it was just arguing for the sake of arguing, like children do.

Now that was calling names

 

[Glocktogo]

so you guys ever decide on a decent lower to suggest to the OP or would you two like to continue to trash and fill up this guys thread with your BS. Take it to another thread.

The OP asked what makes a quality lower, so discussing what makes a quality lower is not "trash talk". Before you can determine what "i"s a quality product, you have to define what quality is. Your comment is unnecessary and off base. Contribute something worthwhile, or learn to lurk more.

 

[ripnbst]

Actually Nikat and I stopped and then M16 started up, two totally different conversations and technically three people so the "you two" statement is inaccurate. Both conversations still related to the OP though. As M16 already pointed out him and I both have our simple recommendations in earlier posts.

M16, I agree 100% that there is better than Mil-spec out there. I won't claim to know everything that goes into certifying a rifle to full Mil-Spec. All I know is general Mil-Spec Protocol, not (AR) specific applications. Each one is different.

The manufacturer/brand name relationship list posted at the bottom of the previous page, though I am not sure accurate, goes to show the point I was trying to make earlier in that one manufacturer making the same lowers on the same (or nearly identical) tooling with the same machinery varies wildly in price. Which is why I made the statement that a company selling their lower for $270 could be bought for $70 and be of the same quality. They have the same MFG cost too.

I thought Aero made Spike's and SAA and a few others but I may be wrong which is why I am not sure that list is accurate.