Why do you carry? And when do you pull and fire?

[skatalite]

Hey, all.

This thread is to discuss a few of things:

• Why do you carry?

• In these following scenarios, when do you decide to draw, and, if you do decide to fire, when do you?

1. You're in a convenience store and an armed man comes in. He doesn't see you, but you see him, and he's pointing a gun at the clerk demanding all of the money in the register. Clerk says he'll oblige.

2. You are walking back to your car. You get to your car and from behind some other cars a guy pops up with a knife, and as he has it pointed at you as he walks toward you, he demands your wallet and keys.

• Do you think the use of force continuum applies to civilians? Why or why not?

 

[David2012]

First case, let the BG have the money & leave, if he shoots the clerk or turns the gun and points it toward you, you shoot.
2nd case, if he is within 21 feet, shoot him.

I believe if your are at risk of serious injury or death from any force be it a physical beating or from a weapon, then you use whatever amount of force is available to you to survive. If BG is beating you with his fists & feet or has a ballbat and you have a 12 ga shotgun or a bazooka... use it. Better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6.

 

[Arin Morris]

I do not have a CCW yet, but I will provide my opinions:

First example I would pull and order the criminal to drop his weapon. If he does not comply, I would feel obligated to fire. If you are unable to protect others as well as yourself, what's the point of carrying?

In your second example, you wouldn't have your gun if you were following the law. I'd probably run like hell.

 

[hrdware]

Why do I carry? Because I am the one responsible for making sure I get home to my wife and kids at night

Scenario 1: Depends on the individual. If you believe the BG would cause death or great bodily harm to the clerk even after they comply, you may choose to draw and fire from a safe location with a safe backstop. Or, you may wish to wait and see if the BG spots you and whatever happens to the clerk happens.

Scenario 2: Invalid. You were at a Thunder game, professional sporting event where carry is prohibited by statute. Leaving any other venue where allowed to carry and the rest of the scenario follows, 21 feet as David said.

Use of force does apply to civilians, however great bodily harm including death can come from a great number of not so conventional weapons.

 

[NINEROUND]

• Why do you carry?
For a multitude of reasons. Because of my family. Because I can protect myself and them better than the police, who may or may not be close enough to help.

1. You're in a convenience store and an armed man comes in. He doesn't see you, but you see him, and he's pointing a gun at the clerk demanding all of the money in the register. Clerk says he'll oblige.
Draw and remain hidden. Evaluate what is happening. I probably wouldn't fire unless he threatened me or mine. Be a good witness for the police when they get there.

2. You're getting out of a Thunder game and are walking back to your car. You get to your car and from behind some other cars a guy pops up with a knife, and as he has it pointed at you as he walks toward you, he demands your wallet and keys.
Get in the car, lock the door and drive out like a maniac, honking all the time, drawing attention to said bad guy if I can. If not, run back to the crowd (and cops) outside the Chesapeake.

• Do you think the use of force continuum applies to civilians? Why or why not?
I think it does apply. It's just a little harder for civilians without LE training to show that they are justifiable in using force. Articulation is the key, and a competent attorney. Doing the proper thing in the first place helps too.

 

[David2012]

Quote: You get to your car and from behind some other cars a guy pops up with a knife, and as he has it pointed at you as he walks toward you, he demands your wallet and keys.

If I have to leave my weapon in the car in order to enter some place, the very first thing I do when I get back to my car is pop the trunk and re-arm myself. In the given senerio, I'd have already had my key fob in my hand walking up to the car, and with a click of the button been able to pop the trunk lid and pick up my pistol immediately. Then as soon as practical, I'd hit the car horn panic alarm so the horn & flashing lights would draw attention to me.

 

[aeropb]

1. Run away and be a good witness.
2. Drop your keys and wallet on the ground. Shoot/kick him in the head when he bends over to pick it up.

 

[skatalite]

Sorry for the lapse regarding the Thunder game scenario. I've edited the original post.

 

[Glocktogo]

I carry to have another option in countering any criminal threat of death or great bodily harm to myself or my family. I will draw my fiream if/when I have a reasonable and articulable fear of death or great bodily harm, and doing so will not substantially increase the risk of death or great bodily harm to myself or my family, regardless of the scenario.

 

[shorton]

I carry because the law says I have the right to defend my life and property and the lives of my loved ones, and bad guys don't really care about rules.

First scenario, If the BG doesn't know you are there, remain hidden with gun drawn unless he threatens the clerks life or yours, let him leave, call 911, try to get a tag number or see which way he runs.

Second scenario, If he is closer than about 25 feet, shoot to kill. Other than that, get in your car and lock the doors and call 911 when you are sure you are safe.

Yes, use of force does apply to civilians. Every person has a basic survival instinct, being able to carry a weapon gives you the abiliity to defend not just your life, but the lives of those around you, in an extreme situation.