A completely reasonable way to deal with the new wave of open carry morons.....

[Glocktogo]

Maybe the next time a 4th Amendment case goes to the Supreme Court, the government can argue in favor of another exception to the warrant requirement based on the "********* exigency."

:

You might want to consider what you just said. Sometimes you get what you ask for, even when it's not what you really want. The SCOTUS ruling on Obamacare immediately springs to mind.

 

[henschman]

You might want to consider what you just said. Sometimes you get what you ask for, even when it's not what you really want. The SCOTUS ruling on Obamacare immediately springs to mind.

Haha... true, true.

I can see it now... Defense attorney: "Your honor, we demur to the evidence and move that this case be dismissed -- this search and seizure was clearly a violation of the 4th Amendment." Prosecutor: "Yes your honor, but it is clear from the evidence that the Defendant is a *********, and as the Court is well aware, any time an officer is dealing with someone he reasonably believes to be a *********, the Constitution is out the window." Judge: "Motion and demurer denied."

 

[hrdware]

That is exactly my point. Open carry folks need to take this into consideration and act accordingly should they be contacted by officers. I've said this before and I'll say it again, the side of the road is very rarely, if ever, the time or the place to argue substantive law issues. If you feel you've been wronged, take it up with the department, but don't go around like the goob in the videos just trying to make someone's 8 hour day any longer than it has to be. What exactly does that accomplish?? Besides making Mr. Marked Guardian look like a *********, I mean ... He's not educating anybody. If anything, he is making a lot more enemies for the Open Carry crowd than anything else ... Oh and he makes himself look like a ********* ...

No, officers need to not make contact unless they have reasonable suspicion of a crime. This acting accordingly thing is a 2 way street. You want open carriers to act accordingly and be nice and polite to the officer who is merely doing his job and taking it upon himself to violate someones rights. I only want the officer to act accordingly and leave me alone unless they have reasonable suspicion I have committed a crime or am about to commit a crime. Without that, they can watch me being legal from afar and leave my rights in tact.

I am sick to death of seeing all these posts on OSA (Oklahoma's 2nd Amendment Community) essentially saying, just be nice to the police because they are the police and just doing their jobs even though they are violating your rights. And, I support the 2nd amendment but this open carry thing is dumb and those who will do it are idiots. You either support it in full or you don't. If someone doesn't agree with another persons choice of carry, fine, but that's no reason to call them names and be demeaning about it. Exercising my 2nd amendment right does not get rid of invalidate my 4th amendment rights. Exercising my 2nd amendment rights also does not give an officer an automatic fishing license on me to see if they can find any thing else out about me. If I'm doing nothing illegal, there is no call for contact.

 

[hrdware]

Haha... true, true.

I can see it now... Defense attorney: "Your honor, we demur to the evidence and move that this case be dismissed -- this search and seizure was clearly a violation of the 4th Amendment." Prosecutor: "Yes your honor, but it is clear from the evidence that the Defendant is a *********, and as the Court is well aware, any time an officer is dealing with someone he reasonably believes to be a *********, the Constitution is out the window." Judge: "Motion and demurer denied."

This made me lol.

 

[Dave70968]

Maybe the next time a 4th Amendment case goes to the Supreme Court, the government can argue in favor of another exception to the warrant requirement based on the "********* exigency."

:

Henschman, you know very well that the purpose of the law is to give authorities the legal power to hassle the "wrong types" of people. We can trust our masters to correctly judge a *********, and only bother them. That sort of person has no rights, and the State would never use it against us fine, upstanding non-********* types.

Isn't that right, IndVet?

 

[BadgeBunny]

No, officers need to not make contact unless they have reasonable suspicion of a crime. This acting accordingly thing is a 2 way street. You want open carriers to act accordingly and be nice and polite to the officer who is merely doing his job and taking it upon himself to violate someones rights. I only want the officer to act accordingly and leave me alone unless they have reasonable suspicion I have committed a crime or am about to commit a crime. Without that, they can watch me being legal from afar and leave my rights in tact.

I am sick to death of seeing all these posts on OSA (Oklahoma's 2nd Amendment Community) essentially saying, just be nice to the police because they are the police and just doing their jobs even though they are violating your rights. And, I support the 2nd amendment but this open carry thing is dumb and those who will do it are idiots. You either support it in full or you don't. If someone doesn't agree with another persons choice of carry, fine, but that's no reason to call them names and be demeaning about it. Exercising my 2nd amendment right does not get rid of invalidate my 4th amendment rights. Exercising my 2nd amendment rights also does not give an officer an automatic fishing license on me to see if they can find any thing else out about me. If I'm doing nothing illegal, there is no call for contact.

And how exactly are they to ascertain that without making contact? You want to TELL the police how to do their job. You want them to give you a pass just because you are you and they should somehow know that you are not a threat to anyone or up to no good.

I, sir, am sick to death of seeing posts EVERYWHERE essentially stating that "I am SO SPECIAL that I should be given a pass to do what I want, where I want, when I want and nobody should EVER QUESTION me because I am SPECIAL and should not be bothered to worry about how I affect those around me."

Good grief, it's not like I've ever said the police are the only folks you need to be "polite" to. All I've ever said is that respect towards others makes it a lot easier to educate and inform. Scare tactics and attempts at bullying never work. They simply cause people to dig in and not consider other possibilities.

Polite makes your day a whole lot easier to get through most times. Being a ********* makes your day a whole lot harder to get through most times. But then, I have no point to prove so I don't need to "cowboy up" as they say ... At least not until the time that someone is NOT polite to ME ...

 

[Buzzgun]

I'll agree that the guy on the video is NOT a great spokesperson for the 2nd, but he was doing nothing illegal.

The police officer had no more probable cause to stop and detain him because "it might be an illegal machine gun" than he would have probable cause to stop every white Honda he sees in Tulsa because a white Honda was reported stolen in Tulsa last month. What are the odds that a person would be openly carrying an unregistered MP5, on a public sidewalk, in broad daylight and just stand there when the cops showed up??

That was purely an excuse to detain and question the guy.

I get it that many people don't like this guy's methods or his crusade. Personally, I think he is a moron, but, sometimes freedom means you have to accept the fact that others will do things you don't agree with.

 

[Werewolf]

No, officers need to not make contact unless they have reasonable suspicion of a crime. This acting accordingly thing is a 2 way street. You want open carriers to act accordingly and be nice and polite to the officer who is merely doing his job and taking it upon himself to violate someones rights. I only want the officer to act accordingly and leave me alone unless they have reasonable suspicion I have committed a crime or am about to commit a crime. Without that, they can watch me being legal from afar and leave my rights in tact.

I am sick to death of seeing all these posts on OSA (Oklahoma's 2nd Amendment Community) essentially saying, just be nice to the police because they are the police and just doing their jobs even though they are violating your rights. And, I support the 2nd amendment but this open carry thing is dumb and those who will do it are idiots. You either support it in full or you don't. If someone doesn't agree with another persons choice of carry, fine, but that's no reason to call them names and be demeaning about it. Exercising my 2nd amendment right does not get rid of invalidate my 4th amendment rights. Exercising my 2nd amendment rights also does not give an officer an automatic fishing license on me to see if they can find any thing else out about me. If I'm doing nothing illegal, there is no call for contact.

​

Great post...

And here's my two cents. Just like the constitution protects and the SCOTUS has upheld NAZI's 1st amendment rights too assemble and demonstrate in public (as distasteful as that may be) the constitution protects one's 4th amendment right to be a "*********".

That's just how it is in a free country.

 

[aestus]

And how exactly are they to ascertain that without making contact? You want to TELL the police how to do their job. You want them to give you a pass just because you are you and they should somehow know that you are not a threat to anyone or up to no good.

I, sir, am sick to death of seeing posts EVERYWHERE essentially stating that "I am SO SPECIAL that I should be given a pass to do what I want, where I want, when I want and nobody should EVER QUESTION me because I am SPECIAL and should not be bothered to worry about how I affect those around me."

Good grief, it's not like I've ever said the police are the only folks you need to be "polite" to. All I've ever said is that respect towards others makes it a lot easier to educate and inform. Scare tactics and attempts at bullying never work. They simply cause people to dig in and not consider other possibilities.

Polite makes your day a whole lot easier to get through most times. Being a ********* makes your day a whole lot harder to get through most times. But then, I have no point to prove so I don't need to "cowboy up" as they say ... At least not until the time that someone is NOT polite to ME ...

^^^^This ^^^^

It's amazing that some people just feel so entitled to being the "exception" and they should be treated special and how dare the police don't already know that they're the "good guy" and should be left alone. Who cares that the cop has a job to do and received a legitimate complaint from a scared individual about a man with a gun. The same people who typically complain about cops doing their jobs and questioning an OCer after receiving a complaint are the same people who usually complain bout how cops don't do anything and are the first to complain when they call and need them, but are unsatisfied with the lack of involvement by the officer.

I guarantee if a loved one called the police about a suspicious individual or about a "man with a gun" that they would expect the police to do everything to investigate and even inspect and detain the said individual. Even if the individual who had the firearm wasn't doing anything illegal, I'm sure they'd want the police to do SOMETHING if not for peace of mind for their loved one, even if the loved one is acting a bit irrational or overly paranoid.

I support open carry, but also realize that the context of how, what and where you open carry is everything. No, I don't support Cops illegally seizing and harassing legal open carry, but I also realize that cops have a job to do and briefly stopping and questioning is within their bounds. I also realize that if I'm going to be an attention seeking douche and carry an AR15 in a public park alone, then I should fully expect that the police will be called and that an hour of my time will be wasted.

The way the police will treat OCers is dependent on the viewpoints on society regarding open carry. Until OC becomes an accepted norm for society, a man with a gun is always going to be viewed with suspicion and as threatening. "Educating" the public by being a douche is not the correct way. This would be like educating someone of their fear of snakes by brazingly walking near them with a snake around your neck and when they freak out, you loudly and obnoxiously tell them that their fears are unfounded and that you're not doing anything illegal and they're just ignorant. That's not education, that's just you being an @$$ and a douche. It's also not going to make them any more comfortable about snakes and if anything will push them towards the opposite. Not only that, they will now probably associate anyone who do like snakes as people they don't want near them, as well.

 

[beast1989]

No, officers need to not make contact unless they have reasonable suspicion of a crime. This acting accordingly thing is a 2 way street. You want open carriers to act accordingly and be nice and polite to the officer who is merely doing his job and taking it upon himself to violate someones rights. I only want the officer to act accordingly and leave me alone unless they have reasonable suspicion I have committed a crime or am about to commit a crime. Without that, they can watch me being legal from afar and leave my rights in tact.

I am sick to death of seeing all these posts on OSA (Oklahoma's 2nd Amendment Community) essentially saying, just be nice to the police because they are the police and just doing their jobs even though they are violating your rights. And, I support the 2nd amendment but this open carry thing is dumb and those who will do it are idiots. You either support it in full or you don't. If someone doesn't agree with another persons choice of carry, fine, but that's no reason to call them names and be demeaning about it. Exercising my 2nd amendment right does not get rid of invalidate my 4th amendment rights. Exercising my 2nd amendment rights also does not give an officer an automatic fishing license on me to see if they can find any thing else out about me. If I'm doing nothing illegal, there is no call for contact.

Yep i agree, we are the same group of guys who ask for tolerance and understanding of us being 2A supporters yet we lynch our own who are a little bit more extreme than we are. There is a LOT of hypocritical behavior in this sub forum, the forum in its entirety for that matter, and it is a bit unnerving (not surprising however).